Spoony Video Blog on the RPGA and Lack of Challenge

[Deuce Traveler]

Has anyone else had this issue that Spoony brings up, where the RPGA discourages challenge and player character risks? I do like his analogy of playing games with no challenge is like performing bedroom self-satisfication on oneself, and there has been the trend in video games also.

http://spoonyexperiment.com/2011/11/01/counter-monkey-leaping-wizards/

 

[Alan Shutko]

I haven't played in RPGA, but I don't agree that the only joy in RPGs is defeating death.

One of the most memorable games I've ever played is Portal on the Amiga. There was no way to die. There was no way to lose. There was no CHALLENGE at all. In fact, the "game" was nothing more than clicking through different screens to figure out what was going on. And that was what was so compelling. I spent hours up late at night because I was so interested in the stories that I needed to find out what happened next.

Some of the other games that were most compelling for me were the Lucasarts adventure games. Yes, there's NO WAY TO DIE. They're still fun as hell.

It's like movies. If you're watching an Indiana Jones flick or a James Bond movie, you know the lead isn't going to die. If you watch some big action blockbuster, you know the good guys are going to win in the end. Is it less fun? No, because the point isn't where the movie ends, it's how you get there.

This is a play style thing. Spoony seems like he wants a more tactical, rigidly interpreted game, where player skill is measured. Sounds like the RPGA (at the time at least) was less about testing the players and more about letting them try character concepts over multiple sessions without having to worry about getting scragged in a flavor encounter.

 

[Tyranthraxus]

I can and have killed pcs in rpgs games. Ive even had a tpk due to some bad dice rolling and bad teamwork. I can see what he is referring to however with the lack of risk in some rpga games. The reporting of games with LIving Forgotten Realms (which dosnt happen now I believe) I think has lead to a drop in quality of these games (as one can actually replay modules which I dislike immensely)

Id actually look at Living Arcanis and now Legends of Arcanis as good examples where modules not only provide some plot to chew over that actually goes somewhere but combats which can and are deadly

Ive both dmed and played RPGA games. I found modules where the nasty evil wizard had a serious lack of damage spells. One character should should of had the fireball spell did not. People who should of been using 2 handed weapons did not. I think its elements like that , dms pick up on. As a player I always did feel a little less threatened at times, but that wasnt a constant thing as I did in fact lose some rpga characters (with no chance of being brought back)

 

[Fast Learner]

Spoony killed me in a game and I loved it; my character did something both foolish and heroic in an unknowable situation. I didn't expect it to kill me, but felt perfectly fine when it did.

I do see this safe play in recent D&D material; I don't know how the RPGA was back then, but it wouldn't surprise me since the point of the organization was to get people playing and keep them playing.

 

[MarkB]

I've experienced a TPK and some near TPKs in LFR modules, even some of the most recently-released ones. I don't think they're particularly soft.

That said, one thing to bear in mind is that these are games designed to be played at conventions, so a death in a scenario - especially early in a scenario - isn't just a setback for the character, it's a pretty serious downer to the player, who may then have to sit out much of a four-hour game slot that he paid good money to participate in.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

That said, one thing to bear in mind is that these are games designed to be played at conventions, so a death in a scenario - especially early in a scenario - isn't just a setback for the character, it's a pretty serious downer to the player, who may then have to sit out much of a four-hour game slot that he paid good money to participate in.

I haven't looked at the blog, but that point trumps anything he might have to say, IMO.

 

[Ahzad]

I'm kind of with Spoony on this I don't want to play a game where my success (by living) is guaranteed doesn't matter if i paid to play or not. There are lots of other games where I pay to play and may get taken out and it doesn't bother me there so why should it bother me in a rpg? No where in the rules does it say that player death is guaranteed not to happen therefor it shouldn't be something players should feel entitled to. You paid you got killed early them's the breaks, now if the DM is feeling generous, or if he were me then I'm going to offer you either another NPC you can turn into a PC or hey you want to run some monsters here's the stats try and kill the other players. It sucks to have some bad dice rolling, but I don't feel that the RPGA should coddle players so that there is no chance for player death, if that is indeed what is happening.

I agree that there is more to rpg's than defeating death though, lot's of other things to overcome that give me great joy.