Spotting a battle a mile away?

[NewJeffCT]

If the players were in a protected hilltop location (a small fort or watchtower type place) - how easily would they be able to see a battle that occurs a mile away? This is assuming there is no terrain in between hindering them, like smaller hills, trees, boulders, ravines, etc.

This would be late morning on a spring day with nice weather.

I would assume that if the battle included a wizard using a fireball or wall of fire, that would be spot-able - especially at night, but otherwise, not much more than specs on the horizon, right? Edited to add: What could a person distinguish at one mile of distance - orcs vs humans vs elves? A horse vs a human? A moving wagon? women vs men? Or, is it too far to distinguish other than tiny moving objects?

This is for D&D 4E, though if another RPG has rules for spotting at distance, I'd be interested in hearing them.

Thanks

 

[riotshieldnation]

Here you go: How far can the human eye see straight ahead on perfectly flat land? - Yahoo! Answers

Human eyes can see surprisingly far.

 

[[OMENRPG]Ben]

The 3 miles is a pretty good answer, on a hilltop it could easily be triple that. Seeing that far and understanding what you're looking at are very different matters however. It would have to be subsequently large enough groups to be visible at greater than a mile away.

Rescue pilots can see reflections from glass and small mirrors from several miles away. Think about when you are in an airplane looking down at a suburb, you are about 5-7 miles up but you can still distinguish houses, and cars if they are moving. Individual people would be very difficult.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Here you go: How far can the human eye see straight ahead on perfectly flat land? - Yahoo! Answers

Human eyes can see surprisingly far.

That is farther than I thought. So, if the hill plus watchtower is 120 feet high, my calculation is that they can see for over 13 miles.

Now, would they be able to distinguish 20 orcs fighting 7 humans and elves, or would it be just specks that they see?

 

[enrious]

Tiny specks.

Heck at 1000m, you're lucky to tell that something is humanoid.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Tiny specks.

Heck at 1000m, you're lucky to tell that something is humanoid.

I'm looking a bit further into this, and I think at 1000m, you could still tell they're humanoid.

Will post links once I can verify.

 

[Relique du Madde]

That is farther than I thought. So, if the hill plus watchtower is 120 feet high, my calculation is that they can see for over 13 miles.

Now, would they be able to distinguish 20 orcs fighting 7 humans and elves, or would it be just specks that they see?

No, not unless you had a spy glass. The only hints that a battle was happening would be the slight flash of their swords and armor before magic is used.

However, you said they were casting fireball and wall of fire, so it would be noticeable considering the fact that a shooting star often is the size of a small rock or as small as a grain of sand. In the case of the fireball, the observer would see a "large" fiery orb fall from the sky and explode onto the ground. They also would see what appears to be a wild fire spring up when wall of fire is cast.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Also, consider the total number of participants in the battle. A larger battle will be more apparenmt from farther away than a small skirmish.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Also, consider the total number of participants in the battle. A larger battle will be more apparenmt from farther away than a small skirmish.

It's about 20 medium sized creatures. One sized large creature is going to enter the battle next session.

 

[[OMENRPG]Ben]

Remember that we're using normal human vision. Depending on what universe or setting you're in, creatures can see considerably better and farther than humans. Elves in LoTR and other similar settings can supposedly see thrice as far as humans.

Twenty medium creatures would be very very difficult to see at a mile away. The reason why snipers use scopes is because it is incredibly difficult to see details even over 500m, let alone a mile.

I agree though, if a very perceptive individual just happened to be looking, and the light just happened to be right, reflections off of weapons and armor could be seen (if they were highly polished.)

I don't mean to threadjack, but if you want the PCs to see it, why not make the battle closer? Or is it a time thing? Because if it is a time thing you can simply make the battle take place closer but in a difficult to reach location, due to difficult terrain or big rocks in the way or a river or something. Just my coupla coppers.