Spotting a battle a mile away?

[NewJeffCT]

I don't mean to threadjack, but if you want the PCs to see it, why not make the battle closer? Or is it a time thing? Because if it is a time thing you can simply make the battle take place closer but in a difficult to reach location, due to difficult terrain or big rocks in the way or a river or something. Just my coupla coppers.

Too late for that - the battle is already happening in game (we had to break right after the battle started).

I was trying to determine if/what they could see from their hilltop vantage point. I believe they had two available spyglasses as well.

A bit more background - a wagon pulled by a horse, as well as a mounted soldier, left the hilltop site and then got ambushed a mile out from the fort. Then, some orcs arrived on the scene and attacked the ambushers.

So, my questions are:
1) Would they (those in the fort) be able to see the battle at all?
2) Would they be able to determine friend/foe amongst the combatants at one mile? Or, would the combatants be mere specks? Would they be able to tell a battle is taking place?
3) Would they be able to tell large creature/objects vs medium? (i.e., a wagon pulled by two mules, a large monster)

 

[GSHamster]

1. Yes, they should be able to see the battle.
2. I would say this depends on if anyone was wearing distinctive uniforms. If they were, they should be able to tell.
3. I think they should be able to do so.

Of course, with the spyglasses, I think they should be able to see everything that happened at a distance of a mile.

 

[Tonguez]

1 Yes
2 you can still see movement, shape and colour so a perceptive PC should be able to pick out the shape of the wagon and guess what it is.
3 yes (although depends on clustering) the large creature will present a distinctive shape provided that it is not surrounded/merged with other dark shapes. I'd have the PCs notice something large arriving and ask "my gods what is that?"

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Too late for that - the battle is already happening in game (we had to break right after the battle started).

I was trying to determine if/what they could see from their hilltop vantage point. I believe they had two available spyglasses as well.

A bit more background - a wagon pulled by a horse, as well as a mounted soldier, left the hilltop site and then got ambushed a mile out from the fort. Then, some orcs arrived on the scene and attacked the ambushers.

So, my questions are:
1) Would they (those in the fort) be able to see the battle at all?
2) Would they be able to determine friend/foe amongst the combatants at one mile? Or, would the combatants be mere specks? Would they be able to tell a battle is taking place?
3) Would they be able to tell large creature/objects vs medium? (i.e., a wagon pulled by two mules, a large monster)

Yes, no, no, maybe, maybe.

They should be able to see the wagon and escort but given that the orcs could take out the wagon and excort in a single round of combat they might not notice the battle and if the the orcs kept the wagon moving they might not think to look closely enough to notice the extra orcs. The horse fleeing the scene could be observable but once it got far enough away it might not. A lot really depends on what the watch from the fort is like is the wagon moving directly away or does the trail cure so that the view of the wagon and escort is from an oblique angle at the time of hte ambush.

If the fort has multiple sentries on the wall it is likely that one or more will watch the wagon until it is out of sight. In that case the watcher will know something has happened but not necessarily that an ambush has occured of the orc ambush was quick and clean and the mounted troopers horse caught immediatly and not killed.
It is very likely that the incident would be reported and a partol send out to investigate though if the commander is compentent.

If there is no organised watch then it could be missed entirely and if there are few active sentries then they might not be looking at the wagon at the right time.

If a watcher is following the progress of the wagon then they will know what happened at a mile and pretty much be able to determine tribal markings and so forth if the optics of the glass is anygood at all.

Edit: climate also matters, places with low humidity will have clearer air and will alow more detailed observation at greater distances than in other circumstances

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks - the trail is pretty much a straight shot out from the fort for about 1 mile. The people in the fort have done a good job maintaining the area around the fort and for that 1 mile trail.

The ambush occurred right after the trail forked at the end of 1 mile - the wagon went East over a bridge that spanned a river (the trail from the fort ran parallel to the river)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

[MENTION=4722]Kerrick[/MENTION] and I talked over this very issue some time back over in the 3x House rules forum Here

At a range of a mile, the combat could be seen easily if they are kicking up dust or smoke. Individually the creatures are just too small to be made out at that distance.


Here is an example from the aforementioned thread

Example 1: Durgan the fighter is riding across the plain in the middle of the day. The sky is clear and cloudless, providing great visibility (+0 modifier). About a half-mile down the road, another rider is coming toward him at a brisk trot, raising a dust cloud as he comes. The second rider is Large (horse-sized), but the dust cloud makes him three sizes larger (Colossal) for spotting purposes, which makes him seem 8 increments closer than he really is (or a -16 modifier to the DC). Since the rider is at max range for his size (around 2,500 feet), the DC is 25. Durgan can see the dust cloud with some effort, but he can't see what's making it until the rider draws closer (within 2,000 feet).

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks Primitive Screwhead - very useful information.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Yes if clear weather, you can see a skirmish at 1 mile(1650yrds).
Making out what each combatant is, not so much.
Marines train open sight to hit man-sized targets at 500yds. Trust me the target looks small.

You could probably get a semi-accurate count of the numbers involved, even the sides if they are flying large flag standards.

I would say yes they could see. But without aid, they couldn't pick out some of the important details.

500yd Par 5 Zero magnification - You can make out the flag at the top of the hill. Figure the flag is about the size of a human head.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks TheYeti1775 - good picture, good information.

 

[blargney the second]

Perception check results for this circumstance.

DC 10: can see a large group of people.
DC 15: there is a commotion of some sort.
DC 20: it's a battle!
DC 25: approximate number of creatures involved. (roll for +/- 20%)
DC 30: exact numbers of creatures, their sizes, and major colour of uniforms