Spring Attack and AoO's

[RigaMortus2]

SPRING ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.
You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
Special: A fighter may select Spring Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Normally, when you are engaged in melee and your enemy threatens you, you have to take the Withdraw action (which is a full round action) to move away, otherwise you provoke. You can't, for example, use a Standard Action and attack your enemy then a Move Action to move away w/o provoking an AoO. Likewise, you can not take a double move (2 Move Actions) and just move away w/o provoking either.

So what happens if you Spring Attack (which is an attack action to perform, which in turn is a Standard Action) and then use your remaining Move Action to move an additional 30 feet away? Would you provoke? You did move out of a threatened square and then took another action (your move action).

 

[Shazman]

You'd have to move 5ft, then attack,a nd then move away. The 5ft counts towards your total movement so you couldn't move as far as just attacking and moving. You have to move, attack, and keep moving to use the feat. You wouldn't get an AoO from the opponent you attacked, but you could get one from any other enemies that your movement would provoke an AoO from.

 

[Stormrunner]

Um, no. Spring attack doesn't let you do two Moves plus one attack. It let's you "split" the one Move you get.
If I Spring Attack by moving 20 ft, attacking, then moving 10 ft, I have used up both my Standard action (by attacking) and my Move action (by moving 30 ft). I don't get to do all that and move another 30 ft.

Even though I moved more than 5 ft before attacking, and more than 5 ft afterwards, I don't take any AoO from the one target I attacked. But anyone else I moved past in the process could AoO me normally.

Clearer? or muddier?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Um, no. Spring attack doesn't let you do two Moves plus one attack. It let's you "split" the one Move you get.

While I firmly believe that this is the intention of the feat, it's not what they actually wrote in 3.5.

The definition of a standard action changed between 3E and 3.5. In 3E, the Attack action was a standard action, which let you move your speed and attack, attack and move your speed, or attack and take a single move-equivalent action. The move was a part of the standard action.

In 3.5, however, the Attack action is a standard action, which is essentially the equivalent of a 3E partial action. It lets you attack. The move action is completely unrelated.

In a normal round in 3.5, you get a move action, and a standard action. In the surprise round, you are restricted to a single standard action.

So let's look at what Spring Attack in 3.5 says, for a character in the surprise round.

"When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed."

Can I use the attack action with a melee weapon? Certainly - it's a standard action, which I can take even in the surprise round. So what does the feat let me do when I take the attack action? I can move both before and after the attack, provided that my total distance moved is not greater than my speed.

The feat allows me to move up to 30 feet when I take the Attack action. The movement derives not from a move action, but from the standard action modified by the feat.

So now let's take a normal round. I take the Attack action with a melee weapon, and the feat lets me move up to 30 feet. I've used my standard action... and I have a move action remaining. Can I use it to move another 30 feet? Arguable... it depends on whether the phrase "total distance moved" refers to during the standard action, or during the round. I may be restricted to using that move action for non-movement purposes.

Now, it's my strong belief that this was in fact an oversight in the revision... that when the standard action was changed, the Spring Attack feat was not correctly updated to reflect this. Hence, in my own game, I require the expediture of an Attack action and a move action to use Spring Attack.

But it's not what the feat says in the book.

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

In my campaigns, you cannot move more than 30 ft in the round, but you can use your move action for something else, like standing up from prone before you take your spring attack, for example.

 

[Artoomis]

In my campaigns, you cannot move more than 30 ft in the round, but you can use your move action for something else, like standing up from prone before you take your spring attack, for example.

Okay... how is that relevant? It's great to have you own rules at variance with the core mechanics, but how is that relevant when someone is asking how Spring Attack is supposed to work?

 

[Dracorat]

Because it has been addressed.

 

[Artoomis]

Because it has been addressed.

It has? The rules state you get a move action and a standard action (which can be a move or an attack or other things not relevant here) in a round.

How is the fact that you do not allow second move in a round relevant? I am confused. Perhaps you can enlighten me - I must be missing something.)

Are you trying to solve some move/spring attack related issue and is this your suggestion of a good way to do that?

You lost me.

 

[Ranger REG]

Normally, when you are engaged in melee and your enemy threatens you, you have to take the Withdraw action (which is a full round action) to move away, otherwise you provoke. You can't, for example, use a Standard Action and attack your enemy then a Move Action to move away w/o provoking an AoO. Likewise, you can not take a double move (2 Move Actions) and just move away w/o provoking either.

So what happens if you Spring Attack (which is an attack action to perform, which in turn is a Standard Action) and then use your remaining Move Action to move an additional 30 feet away? Would you provoke? You did move out of a threatened square and then took another action (your move action).

You do not gain an additional move action. What you do gain from the above feat is the ability to split your move action into two parts, so you can move, then attack, then move in one combat round. The total distance of both partial moves cannot be more than your current speed in that round.

Without the Spring Attack feat, you can only attack then move OR move then attack. IOW, you are limited to attack before you move OR attack after you move.

Regarding AoO, you don't provoke your intended target when using Spring Attack. HOWEVER, you do provoke others, as per normal rules (AoO vs. movement).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Okay... how is that relevant? It's great to have you own rules at variance with the core mechanics, but how is that relevant when someone is asking how Spring Attack is supposed to work?

He means "In my campaigns, when you are using Spring Attack, you cannot move more than 30 ft in the round, but you can use your move action for something else, like standing up from prone before you take your spring attack, for example."

Which isn't at variance with the rules, if you assume that "total distance moved" is a limit on the entire round.

-Hyp.