Spring Attack and Improved Feint

[Scharlata]

Hi, fellow spring attackers!

How does the feat Spring Attack interact with the use of the Improved Feint feat?

Is it possible to make a Spring Attack against a target that you try to (improved) feint in the same round?

Or is the movement used during the Spring Attack action the only move action you can take?

The Spring Attack feat allows you to use an "attack action" that should be a STANDARD action (p. 139 PH). The Improved Feint feat allows you to reduce the time cost of a Feint in Combat maneuver from a standard action to a MOVE action.

Does it work out or am I missing something?

Thank you for your input.

Kind regards

 

[TessarrianDM]

The Spring Attack feat requires that you move at least 5' both before and after you make your attack (PH 100). If you use a move action for Improved Feint, you could only take a single 5' step, not qualifying you to use Spring Attack in the same round at all.

 

[TheGogmagog]

It looks to me that Spring attack is a standard action that allows you to make an attack action. It is independent of the move action that must occur before and after this standard action. In this case, it looks like you can move and take a move equivilant action (improved feint or draw a weapon). edit: draw a weapon has a special notation allowing it to stack with move actions, Improved Feint does not. Therefore, I agree no feint+spring attack.

The alternative would be for Spring attack to be a full round action that entails movement, an attack action, followed with movement. This case would not allow for a separate move action.

 

[TessarrianDM]

Yes, use of the Spring Attack feat requires a standard action. Under normal circumstances you may take one standard action and one move action in any given round. Use of the Spring Attack feat requires that you use a move action to move at least 5' before and at least 5' after your attack (the standard action). As you have taken both a move action and a standard action in the same round, you would not have a move action available to use the Improved Feint feat.

The reverse would also apply. If you take a move action to use the Improved Feint feat, you could take another move action to close in on your target, but would not be able to use a standard action to make any kind of attack, including a Spring Attack. Alternatively, you could use Improved Feint and then attack, but since you could not take more than a single 5' step, you could not use Spring Attack. The restriction of a standard plus a move action or two move actions in a single round prevents this.

The only way you could use Improved Feint in the same round as a Spring Attack would be if either feat was an immediate, swift or, free action.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I was mistakenly referencing move equivalent actions that can be stacked with actual movement. Only drawing a weapon and equipping a shield have the superscript indicating such stacking.
The improved feint (not on the table) and other actions on the table like opening a door are a move action in themselves and don't stack.

 

[Scharlata]

Thanx for the input.

I stumbled across the changed text for Spring Attack in a later printing of the PH yesterday. It makes things entirely clear.
Move and attack are all you can do in the round making a Spring Attack. You got no more "move actions".

Kind regards

P.S.: Why did WotC hid the fact that they changed the text. They anounce every bit of errata but on important text changes in later printings they were silent. :\

 

[Arkhandus]

You can't use them together. Unless you have some special ability that lets you feint in combat as a free action or swift action; only then could you feint after moving up to your opponent (note that you have to use feint in melee, you can't do it from further away), then attack and keep on moving with Spring Attack.

 

[ElectricDragon]

The only way I could see it working is with the Hustle psionic power that gives you an extra Move action for the cost of a swift action.

Hustle, move 5 ft+, improved feint, attack, move 5 ft+

Not sure if you could use a move action in the middle of a move action though.

Ciao
Dave

 

[ghoul542]

With some work it is possible.

Level 5 Invisible Blade in Complete Warrior allows you to Feint as a free action. The only down side to this is it is with daggers, punching daggers, and my favorite, kukris. This class also gives a dagger sneak attack that stacks with any other SA but with daggers only. The other nice thing about this class is that you get Uncanny feint at 3rd lvl. It is the same as improved feint but frees up a feat.

 

[Darklone]

Invis Blade has been errataed ... the feint thing works only once per round now