Spring Attack Confusion

[Chu Li]

An unrelated question: Chu Li, are you Chun Li's father? And if so, do I have your blessing?

Many have tried hard, some have tried even harder, a few came close but none survived. You have been warned but my blessing you have to share her square...

Chu Li

 

[Thurbane]

So a move action can be double your base move, and still allow you to attack? Or is that only on a charge?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So a move action can be double your base move, and still allow you to attack? Or is that only on a charge?

With a Charge, you can move twice your speed and make a single melee attack.

Without a Charge, if you want to move and also attack, you'll probably be taking a Move action (up to your speed), and an Attack action (a single attack in most cases).

Spring Attack uses both an Attack action and a Move action (once the reprinted feat in Special Edition or later PHBs is taken into account), so the limit on movement in total is your speed, not twice your speed.

-Hyp.

 

[Thurbane]

With a Charge, you can move twice your speed and make a single melee attack.

Without a Charge, if you want to move and also attack, you'll probably be taking a Move action (up to your speed), and an Attack action (a single attack in most cases).

Spring Attack uses both an Attack action and a Move action (once the reprinted feat in Special Edition or later PHBs is taken into account), so the limit on movement in total is your speed, not twice your speed.

-Hyp.

Fair enough. Makes the feat a little useless though, especially if you only have a move of 20 or 30 feet.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Fair enough. Makes the feat a little useless though, especially if you only have a move of 20 or 30 feet.

It's situational... and within the situations where it shines, it really shines.

If you've got two guys with longswords, it's not that exciting. Instead of making full attacks on each other, they make single attacks on each other.

But if the Springer has a reach weapon, or the opponent is a TWFer or otherwise relies on multiple attacks, or if the opponent has reach, or in various other circumstances, it's a great feat.

-Hyp.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

If you want to move-standard action-move some more, the feat you want is Flyby Attack.
Sort of like Spring Attack but doesn't negate any AoOs, but lets you do a standard action, not just an attack action.

 

[hong]

Many have tried hard, some have tried even harder, a few came close but none survived. You have been warned but my blessing you have to share her square...

I'm trying, I'm trying.

 

[evermind]

hmmm, interesting question indeed

I will assume that the stated ally is neither helpless, incorporeal or ethereal, tiny or smaller or physically absent in any other way while the Spring Attack is taking place. Your question is not phrased all that clearly with regard to this

As for attacking/acting in an occupied square (occupied by whatever, lets hope its not a solid wall ), PHB 3.5 erratad (?) printing page 148 gives some clues.

"You cannot end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless"

Which, to my mind, would mean, as long as you are in the same square as a non-helpless creature (or those smaller than tiny ), you cannot perform any action that is not an immediate legal movement to leave that square. If you _stop_ moving in an occupied square, you immediately get shunted to the next viable adjacent square (page 148-149, "accidentally ending up in an illegal space". )

Also check the rules for "squeezing" - if 'squeezing' into a space smaller than your required "square size", you cannot attack etc. I would argue, that since a specific square (occupied by another creature) is already "taken", any further creature would have to squeeze into said square. And hence be unable to do anything but move.

As for "Spring Attack" - single or double move : If one employ "Spring Attack" by ruling a (full) move action before the attack and a standard action to move again after the attack, there definitely is no way one can attack from an occupied square, as stopping there is simply not permissible by the rules.
If one sticks to the "single move and attack somewhere during that move" version postulated by Hypersmurf , than I would actually rule similarly, although only on instinct, especially, if the movement takes the form of the common forward+backward attack, and not a "ride by" style of movement in a straight or slightly curved, continous line. The ally is in the way of the attack and blocks your square.


In all honesty, this sounds like a massive abuse of the rules, especially their spirit, either on part of the player or the GM. Give him a good smack over the head Chi Lu, will you ?

Oh, and as for the many uses of "Spring Attack" - its quite wonderful, especially if combined with a monk's or scout's speed enhancement and "skirmish" damage...

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Actually, you can move into an occupied square, make your attack, and get shunted back to the last legal square you occupied, because your turn hadn't ended before the attack was made. However, you will take an AoO for your effort for moving through a threatened area when you get kicked back a square. With Spring Attack, you can do the move-attack-move and not take the AoO from the creature you attacked. As long as you are only moving through friendlies, it is legal movement. You just have to overrun your friend, and they avoid you, so your move is unimpeded.

This helps with 5ft door with one person blocking everyone's fun, because there aren't any rules for pulling someone friendly out of the way, and there's no 'swap places' action that can be done. And, no one can maneuver, because the game is turn-based, so no one can move simultaneously.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, you can move into an occupied square, make your attack, and get shunted back to the last legal square you occupied, because your turn hadn't ended before the attack was made.

The prohibition is not on ending your turn in an occupied square; it is on ending your movement in an occupied square.

-Hyp.