Spycraft metagame rules

Davelozzi

Explorer
I'm not sure that metagame is exactly the right word here but here goes...

So I finally got the chance to pick up Spycraft last night. I read all the reviews a while back and have had Spycraft Lite for a while but hadn't had the cash for the main book yet. I read about 35 pages or so last night and it looks good.

However, what is surprising to me is the some of meta-based rules. For example, action dice and a lot of characters abilities are usable a certain number of times per session, rather than per day/week or other unit of game time or some other in-game factor. I'm still trying to decide how I feel about this, but my gut is that it seems like a weird way to balance an ability considering that one group may play a couple of hour session on the weeknight while others may play marathon sessions all day and into the night on weekends. Of course, the GC could rule that abilities "reset" in the middle of a long session, but still.

Also, one of the Faceman's class abilities is that he can ask the GC three random questions about an NPC that he's just met. This kind of bugs me as well. Personally, I wouldn't feel right about giving the player info that his character wouldn't know.

So is it just me or has this stuff given anyone else pause?

Otherwise, the game is looking very good, I'd love to see it in action.
 

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I would agree, that the whole "use per session" is very vauge. However, considering how time will pass in the game, you can't realy do things by use per gametime.

It does put the refresh rate in to the hands of the GC (spycrafts DM) so there is needs to be some trust. However the GC is also limited in his action dice as well. So it would be good for both GC and players that "sessions" are not too long.

As for the faceman's ablity. That is his Stchick. He gets free information on people. It is just one more thing you have to plan. There are alot of ways for characters to short-ciruit the plans of a GC in Spycraft. Many of the higher level abilities are called "Rule-Breakers." You just have to roll with the punches.

-The Luddite
 

Well, I play in a PBEM Spycraft game, so we have no "game sessions" per se. Our GC tells us when the action dice reset, and that's that.

As I understand the Faceman class ability you're speaking of, the GC is not giving the player OOC knowledge. It's my understanding that the three questions represent the character's ability to size people up with a glance, and thus, the information would be character knowledge, not player knowledge.

I suppose you could represent the questions as mental questions the character asks himself, and then he discovers the answers by observation and deduction.
 

Davelozzi said:
So is it just me or has this stuff given anyone else pause?

The #-per-session is a staple of AEG's other games, iirc, as are the action dice.

I like it. It leads to a lot less concern over time in the game-

"did I use that once-per-ic-day ability yet?"
"No, that was yesterday"
"but we haven't slept.."
"Didn't you use it with the ogre battle?"
"Yeah, but what time did that happen? Haven't we been marching for some time?"
And.. etc..

This makes it nice and simple. It also goes along with the episode-like nature of the game.

As for the faceman's ability- go look at the higher level pointman and soldier abilities. That is nothing.

I think it is a cool ability- and, iirc, isn't there an option for the GM to spend an action die to not give the info?

FD
 

Re: Re: Spycraft metagame rules

Furn_Darkside said:
As for the faceman's ability- go look at the higher level pointman and soldier abilities. That is nothing.
FD

Yeah, I didn't get to the other classes until last night, but you're right.

Well, I guess it will be a good test of my GMing skills. :)
 

Re: Re: Re: Spycraft metagame rules

Davelozzi said:

Well, I guess it will be a good test of my GMing skills. :)

You just have to remember the old song "anything you can do, I can do better". You have access to more and better action dice- and the same classes for enemies.

Plus, from my experience- my players will save all of their action dice until the end of a session. It is a bit annoying, especially since I have explained multiple times how they can earn more.. but my players are odd balls.

FD
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Spycraft metagame rules

Furn_Darkside said:


You just have to remember the old song "anything you can do, I can do better". You have access to more and better action dice- and the same classes for enemies.

And, to misquote (IIRC) Patton "no scenario ever survives contact with the players" :)
 

BButler said:

As I understand the Faceman class ability you're speaking of, the GC is not giving the player OOC knowledge. It's my understanding that the three questions represent the character's ability to size people up with a glance, and thus, the information would be character knowledge, not player knowledge.

I suppose you could represent the questions as mental questions the character asks himself, and then he discovers the answers by observation and deduction.

Exactly how I see it....I mean what spy movie doesn't have a character that can tell you a lot about someone just by observing him.....its a staple of the spy genre..:D
 
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Re: Re: Spycraft metagame rules

Furn_Darkside said:
As for the faceman's ability- go look at the higher level pointman and soldier abilities. That is nothing. I think it is a cool ability- and, iirc, isn't there an option for the GM to spend an action die to not give the info?FD

The problem with the ability is not the ability itself, but how some players will try to use it. I had in the first session a pointman (who had gotten Cold Read as a cross class ability) try to ask some really ridiculous questions with the ability, admitting in the end it was just to get me to spend action dice. When i told him he could ask sensible questions and get answers (or get me to spend action dice if the answers would be 'damaging') he had a fit. He didn't want to Hannibal Lector, he wanted to be Kreskin (sp?). Dave's concern is a legitmate one. As long as your player is playing in good faith, you shouldn't have a problem. But beware of who in the group has the ability. It MIGHT cause som problems.

As for action dice themselves, i have a different take on them. I don't like the GC having them!! As a GC, i found myself at a bit of a loss for using them. I didn't want to use them with the no name guard types, because they should drop in one hit. The problem being here is that when it comes down to a scene with the Main baddie, there is so much action dice stored up, the main baddie can absolutely tear up the players. I resorted to just using my action dice to acvtivateing their fumbles and then use the remainder on the last guard for his defense so they needed an extra round to take him down. That'll get old fast however. I'm going to let it go a couple weeks, but i may just ixnay the GC's action dice rule altogether. It creates a bit of an adversarial dynamic between the GC and the players.

My most major problem with the game is the NPC rules. Even the loser npc guard types have vitality!! Thats the problem, they are too tough. Sure they go down on a critical, but thats few and far between and cost the player an action dice. Blegh! NPC no namers are supposed to go down in droves.
I switched to using NPC classes from Star Wars, where they have no vitality and drop like rocks. Like they are supposed to, especially in this genre! :)
 

Re: Re: Re: Spycraft metagame rules

Warchild said:
My most major problem with the game is the NPC rules. Even the loser npc guard types have vitality!! Thats the problem, they are too tough. Sure they go down on a critical, but thats few and far between and cost the player an action dice. Blegh! NPC no namers are supposed to go down in droves.
I switched to using NPC classes from Star Wars, where they have no vitality and drop like rocks. Like they are supposed to, especially in this genre! :)

I didn't know Star Wars did it that way - I've been doing it like that as well. Makes it more fun :)
 

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