C. Baize said:
But there are a few factual errors. I can't comment on the opinions, because I don't have Spycraft, but I will correct the factual errors regarding D20 Modern, just so a comparison is not being made between facts about one system, and errors about another.
I haven't read D20M. I've read the D20MSRD. If there are differences between the two, that could account for it--but i was under the impression they were identical in rules, just less content in the D20MSRD.
Okay. Action points.
Basic Classes get (5+½ Character Level, rounded down) action points per level.
Advanced Classes get (6+½ Character Level, rounded down) action points per level.
Prestige Classes get (7+½ Character Level, rounded down) action points per level.
Action points are meant to be a heroic effort, or the cinematic effort... Detective Murtaugh pulls his 6 shooter, rolls his head to pop his neck and steady himself, takes aim, and fires...
Honestly, in 5 levels, my main D20 Modern hero has used a total of *1* action point... not because I'm hoarding them, but because it was the right time to use it.
First, my mistake: i'm not sure how i misread the rules to get those figures in the first place. Yes, the numbers of actual Action Points you get in D20M are much more reasonable than i'd first read them as. Still insufficient, IMHO, but reasonable.
But i still don't like the implementation. Your example of having used one in 5 levels actually sort of supports my point: different style of play. *If* they're only going to be used every now and then, they're fine. But theyn they don't really change the flow of the game, all they do is give you a slight boost in effectiveness. IMHO, the strength of hero points, in general, is radically altering the flow of the game, so that more of that control is in the hands of the players, and less is in the hands of the rules. D20M doesn't seem to be geared for supporting that style of play. Which is fine for someone like you, who isn't going for that style of play. But it, IMHO, defeats the purpose of having hero points in the first place.
Again, in essence, correct. And again, I have to laugh.
"Psionics: D20 Modern has it in the core book, Spycraft has it as a supplement... therefore Spycraft is superior..." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Not *quite* what i said. What i said is that D20M has a crappy system in the book, and, if you're a D&D player you probably already have that particular system, only better (more detail, if nothing else) in the Psi Handbook. Spycraft doesn't have a system in the core book, but there *is* a really awesome psi system in a supplement. What i'm basically saying is that, *if* you want psychic powers that have any semblance of the genre as seen in book and film, you won't be satisfied with the D20M system, so it may as well not be there. Or, IOW, awesome system in supplement beats useless system in core book.
As for superscience, and alien tech... it's not D20 Future... it's D20 MODERN. D20 Future is coming later, I hear.
Again, I say: It's D20 MODERN. Not d20 Future.
Apples and oranges, man.
D20 Modern is meant for gaming in the MODERN genre. Look outside your window... add a spattering of magic, and supernatural critters... It isn't MEANT to be D20 Future.
So, apparently Buffy the Vampire Slayer, 10th Kingdom, and The Prophecy are "modern", but James Bond, The Avengers (TV series, not superheroes), X-Files, VR5, Mission: Impossible, A-Team, GI Joe, Replacement Killers, and Men in Black aren't? Are we using some new definition of "modern" that i missed? One that includes elements that are rarely seen in putatively-realistic modern-setting entertainment, but excludes elements that are frequently seen in putatively-realistic modern-setting entertainment?
It's precisely D20M's decision to support "real+magic" but not "real+superscience" that i'm questioning.
Look... here's this one, again...
"D20 Modern has it, and it's a cool thing... Spycraft doesn't have this cool thing... Therefor Spycraft is better..."
I'm glad I'm not drinking anything, as I re-read through this.
D20 Modern has reputation, it also has feats to increase or DEcrease your reputation. It's all there.
HOWEVER.
I, too, wish they had done something WITH the reputation bonus... Like at a certain reputation level you have neighborhood notoriety, a couple more and it's local, a couple more and it's the area, a couple more and it's the state, a couple more, it's the region, and so on... up to world notoriety... An easy enough fix, but it's not IN D20 Modern. I like the reputation system, but it needs further development.
You basically just said the same thing i did about D20M: it nominally has this system, but it doesn't really *do* anything with it.
As for Spycraft: what i actually said is that it has all the ends of a reputation system, but gets there through different means, so it'd be harder to extend it. But there's also less need, because the reputation effects in Spycraft better cover the genre than those in D20M do.
You can strafe and burst fire in D20 Modern at the standard -4 penalty.
Either the D20MSRD doesn't agree with the rulebook, or something's up here. According to the D20MSRD, you are a lot more limited than that:
Burst Fire
Benefit: When using an automatic firearm with at least five bullets loaded, the character may fire a short burst as a single attack against a single target. The character receives a -4 penalty on the attack roll, but deal +2 dice of damage.
Firing a burst expends five bullets and can only be done if the weapon has five bullets in it.
Normal: Autofire uses ten bullets, targets a 10-foot-by-10-foot area, and can't be aimed at a specific target. Without this feat, if a character attempts an autofire attack at a specific target, it simply counts as a normal attack and all the extra bullets are wasted.
Strafe
Benefit: When using a firearm on autofire, the character can affect an area four 5-foot squares long and one square wide (that is, any four squares in a straight line).
Normal: A firearm on autofire normally affects a 10-foot-by-10-foot area.
So, without the feats, you can spray an area indiscriminately, using lots of ammo. With the feats, you can control where you aim, or pump a single person full of lead.
So....In D20 Modern, there's not a whole section on chase scale and vehicle manuevering, and vehicular stunts, from pages 155 - 163, incorporating vehicular movement and vehicular combat? Wow... I must be imagining things...
That's not the same as having a chase system. It's just the same rules as for people, but with bigger squares. See my other post for more on this.
Since he doesn't say anything about D20 Modern here, except to speculate that it sucks, I won't put anything here.
That's because i've never read D20M itself, only the D20MSRD. So i'm not going on speculation, i *do* know the rules. But things like GMing advice aren't included in the SRDs. As for my opinion of the GMing advice: give me any reason to believe it will be better than that in the D&D3E books. Otherwise, pre-judging a book based on other books by the same company seems reasonable, if not guaranteed. And i did clarify that i was speculating.
[b[
Just so we're clear.... the only person to whom you would recommend D20 Modern is someone who wants to play... D20 Modern.
Uhmm...
Goodness... that's a leap of epic proportions, there.... I'm truly astounded... [/B]
Yes, but there's a whole hoard of genres within "modern" for which i'd recommend Spycraft (or M&MM, or perhaps some other game) over D20M, and very few for which D20M is better-suited. And, of those, i think most of them can be done even better by using 2 other games in combination (such as Spycraft & D&D). So, in essence, i sincerely believe that D20M is really only the right choice for D&D Modern. If you want something else, the effort to wing it with a different book will be the same or less than the effort to adapt D20M. Not to mention that you can save your money and just download the D20MSRD, if that's *really* what you want.
