Stabilization and Delay

[buzz]

Okay, the PHB says that you start making stabilization rolls (i.e., trying to avoid the -1hp loss) on the turn immediately after you are dropped into negative hp. "Turn" is defined in the PHB glossary as (paraphrased) "when your initiative count comes up."

So, my question is, if your init count comes before anyone else can act to heal you, can you simply Delay? Delay isn't an action; it's just the player choosing a different count on which to have his PC act.

My thinking is yes. The caveat being that one cannot simply Delay indefinitely to avoid ever losing hp. The SRD says: "If you come to your next action and have not yet performed an action, you don’t get to take a delayed action (though you can delay again)." Basically, your turn happened, you just didn't do anything, and thus make that stabilization roll. If you're still alive, you can Delay again.

Thoughts?

 

[pawsplay]

By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act.

Only a conscious character could choose to do something.

 

[buzz]

Only a conscious character could choose to do something.

Delay is not an action, though, so I don't think arguments about being conscious really apply. I mean, your Init count is determined by your Dex, so, what, a really fast CP with Imp. Init dies faster, too?

Actually, I think it makes sense to say that an unconscious PC essentially drops to the last person in the init order.

 

[Goldmoon]

I dont see how it would be possible to delay when unconscious. I agree that it would have to be a conscious decision.

 

[MarkB]

Okay, the PHB says that you start making stabilization rolls (i.e., trying to avoid the -1hp loss) on the turn immediately after you are dropped into negative hp. "Turn" is defined in the PHB glossary as (paraphrased) "when your initiative count comes up."

So, my question is, if your init count comes before anyone else can act to heal you, can you simply Delay?

No. By the time you get to choose whether or not to Delay (which I agree must be a conscious decision in-character), your initiative has come up - whether you've done anything on that initiative or not. Whether you choose to take an action or not, things still happen to you - things like bleeding to death.

 

[buzz]

I dont see how it would be possible to delay when unconscious. I agree that it would have to be a conscious decision.

My thinking is that Delay != Ready.

Ready is the character literally preparing himself to act when a trigger occurs. It requires an action.

Delay is the player simply choosing a different initiative count on which to have their PC act. The PC's turn doesn't actually happen until that new count. So the state of the PC doesn't factor in. Delaying is not an action.

Take this situation:

Init 20: Orc smacks my PC, bringing him to -9hp.
Init 19: My PC fails to stabilize, and thus drops to -10hp and dies.
Init 10: The party cleric looks on, having been unable to help my PC because he has a lower init count.

I.e., my PC is penalized for having a good Init roll, which makes no sense.

In 3.0, stabilization rolls always happened at the end of the round, after everyone else acted. The intent was to allow dying PCs a chance to get healed. Of course, rounds had beginnings and ends in 3.0. That, and it just meant that going last in init was bad.

In 3.5, you roll on your turn. Since Delay controls when your turn happens, it makes sense to me that you can Delay to the end of the round in hopes another PC will be able to stabilize you.

That, and that's how it works in HERO.

 

[Artoomis]

No. By the time you get to choose whether or not to Delay (which I agree must be a conscious decision in-character), your initiative has come up - whether you've done anything on that initiative or not. Whether you choose to take an action or not, things still happen to you - things like bleeding to death.

I agree. Arguing for anything else is pretty clearly rules-lawyering abusiveness.

 

[el-remmen]

Yep, doing that would trying to use the letter of the rules to get over. . . it makes no sense.

 

[Vegepygmy]

I join the others in the opinion that no, you cannot simply Delay your stabilization check.

 

[buzz]

No. By the time you get to choose whether or not to Delay (which I agree must be a conscious decision in-character), your initiative has come up...

See, I don't think this is true.

SRD w/r/t Delay: "Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the delayed action."

It doens't give you another init count, it gives you a new init count. Otherwise, it would follow that you risked losing hp both when you chose to Delay and when you took the Delayed action. That makes even less sense to me.

I conceed that my argument isn't perfect. E.g., the 5-ft step is also "Not an action," and there's no way an unconscious PC can do that.

I'll run this by WotC customer service later.