Stacking Question

[Brown Jenkin]

I should know better but do Mage Armor and Magic Vestment stack. One is an Armor Bonus the other an Enhancement bonus.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Would Mage Armor stack with the enhancement bonus of a magical armor? I think not, so, to answer your question, IMO, no.

For example, a wizard wearing a leather armor +1 and protected by Mage Armor. That wizard has an AC of 14 (barring any other AC modifier).

AR

 

[dcollins]

Basically, no.

The magic vestment Enhancement Bonus increases the Armor Bonus on a shield, armor, or clothing. That improved Armor Bonus does not stack with the Armor Bonus from mage armor.

 

[Sigma]

Bonuses of different types always stack. An enhancement bonus is not an armor bonus even if the enhancement is to armor. See pg 21 of the DMG.

Edit: Hmmm...then again...page 216 and 217 of the DMG says "Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses..[that] stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses)."

Is mage armor a "regular armor bonus" or a magic non-enhancement armor bonus? If you had a magic item, like a necklace, that gave +3 enhancement to AC, would it stack with any armor?

Maybe this is another reason shield only lasts 1 min/lvl. It stacks with magic vestment whereas mage armor does not.

I'd probably allow it, but I wouldn't say it's crystal clear.

 

[Gilwen]

I should know better but do Mage Armor and Magic Vestment stack. One is an Armor Bonus the other an Enhancement bonus.

Yes they would stack. While there is an arguement to be made that it doesn't affect the Mage Armor spell there is no arguement that Magic Vestment can not affect clothing. So, they do stack unless you happen to be completely naked!

Mage Armor = +4 Armor bonues
Clothing = AC 0
Magic vestment (cast on cloths) = +1/4 levels enchancement bonues
Total AC bonus (assuming +1 from vestment) = +5


what you need to remember is that like bonuses do not normally stack. They over lap each other. You only add the greater of the like bonuses.

So if I have I have +1 leather armor and then cast magic vestment it would have no effect since the armor has already got a +1 or better enhancement bonus, the spells effect is still there you just don't get the benefit of it while wearing your +1 armor. In the case of a necklace that gives you a +3 enhancement bonus and you are wearing +1 leather it would have an effect. The net AC bonus (assuming dex 0) would be +5.


Let's complicate things a little.


Mage Armor gives a +4 armor bonus
Leather Armor gives a +2 armor bonus
enhancement on the leather armor gives a +1 enhancement bonues

Using the stacking rules you would get an AC bonus of +5. See how you take the +4 from mage armor? It overlaps the +2 from the leather armor, the +2 is still there you just are not recieving the bonus to your AC. while MA is in affect. You would do this with all the like ac bonuses. Just because the MA overlaps the leather armor doesn't make the +1 enhancment null and void. Since the enhancement bonus is not an armor bonues they can stack.

One of my characters has +5 padded armor, a ring of protection +5, bracers of armor +8, Amulet of Nat. Armor +5 for an AC bonus of +23. They all stack because they are different types of bonuses. (keep in mind I am not adding in the padded armor's armor bonus just the +5 enhancement bonues because I am already getting an armor bonus greater than what padded provides from the bracers).

If I didn't have the armor I could get magic vestment cast and could benefit from the extra AC that MV provides.
HTH,

Gilwen

 

[Hypersmurf]

An enhancement bonus does not increase your AC.

An enhancement bonus, in fact, increases the armor bonus of your armor (or the shield bonus of your shield).

The armor bonus is what increases your AC.

So the example provided above of Mage Armor in conjunction with +1 Leather Armor is incorrect.

Mage Armor provides a +4 Armor bonus to AC.

Leather Armor provides a +2 Armor bonus to AC, but the +1 enhancement bonus increase the bonus of the Leather Armor to +3.

So the character has a +4 Armor bonus (Mage Armor) and a +3 Armor bonus (Leather Armor enhanced by +1). Since Armor bonuses do not stack, only the largest applies.

The same is true for someone with Magic Vestment cast on their clothing with Mage Armor running. The Magic Vestment does not give them a +3 Enhancement bonus to their Armor Class; it increases the Armor bonus of their clothing from +0 to +3. And that +3 Armor bonus does not stack with the +4 Armor bonus of the Mage Armor.

Check the table of bonus types and what they affect.

Armor: AC
Deflection: AC
Dodge: AC
Insight: AC
Enhancement: Armor's Bonus

-Hyp.

 

[jgsugden]

Hypersmurf is correct.

Mage armor gives an armor bonus.

Armor gives an armor bonus.

Magic vestment gives the armor an enhancement bonus which increases the armor bonus that the armor grants.

 

[glass]

Hypersmurf is correct.

IME, he usually is.

glass.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Upon reflection I came to the same conclusion as Hypersmurf. Currently I have a Clr11/Brd2 (with 3.0 spell list but 3.5 spell descriptions) so my Mage Armor is +4/2hrs while Magic Vestment is +2/11hrs. I knew there was a reason I hadn't been using Magic Vestment up to this point. Up until this point I haven't realy seen the need for both and Mage Armor is better and I had need for my spell slots. Starting next level though Magic Vestment will go to +3/12hrs and I will likely swap over since it will last most of the day and be almost as effective. In a pinch I can still put up Mage Armor for that extra +1 (at least until 16th level when they become even). Thanks everyone.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Hypersmurf is correct.

And he put it as elegantly as humanly possible.

The question remains: Is Hypersmurf human?

AR