Staff Fighting and Dual Implement Spellcaster

[Nifft]

is this still up to date ? (i do not have the char. builder at hand to validate this)

So far as I can see, you are still able to use a single staff as two implements -- adding its Enhancement bonus twice to damage -- if you have both feats. Does that answer your question?

Staff of Ruin Errata

Looks like they fixed the hole where your Sorcerer has a Bloodiron Dagger in his main hand and a Staff of Ruin in his off-hand, which is good.

Using just one Staff of Ruin + Staff Fighting + Dual Implement = 3x Enhancement damage, which is not bad at all.

Cheers, -- N

 

[GrandPotato]

I found this on a google search. It looks like the character builder still adds twice the enhancement bonus to the staff when Dual Implement Caster feat is taken, whether or not Staff Fighting or any other feat is selected. I merely have DIS and a +3 staff in my main hand and it applies +6 damage.

Is THIS intended?

 

[abyssaldeath]

No one knows for certain and it really depends on who you ask. I would at least require the feat being that the Staff is one of the best, if not the best, implements in the game.

 

[Aulirophile]

It is a CB bug, it isn't intended. CB does not handle staffs properly because, unlike like every other weapliment, they can be wielded as an implement 1hed, and but as a weapon they require 2hs. Everything else is wielded in the same number of hands, regardless of it is an implement or a weapon.

Staff Fighting+DIS with one staff is intended to work though, a double weapon is two weapons by RAW.

 

[Aulirophile]

No it doesn't. Weapon properties only apply to the weapon they are attached to. You need to actually attack with the Subtle Weapon to gain the bonus.

AV pg. 56 only applies to weapon powers. Implements have always operated by a completely different set of rules then weapons in 4e.

 

[Oldtimer]

Staff Fighting+DIS with one staff is intended to work though, a double weapon is two weapons by RAW.

That is debatable. Wielding a double weapon is like wielding two weapons. Nowhere does it say that a double weapon is two weapons, nor that a double weapon is two implements. One staff is still just one implement.

The staff is a bit weird, since it's a one-handed implement but a two-handed weapon by default. But nothing in the rules implies that Staff Fighting affects the way you wield it as an implement. Making it a double weapon doesn't make it a double implement (or two implements).

 

[Nifft]

I found this on a google search. It looks like the character builder still adds twice the enhancement bonus to the staff when Dual Implement Caster feat is taken, whether or not Staff Fighting or any other feat is selected. I merely have DIS and a +3 staff in my main hand and it applies +6 damage.

Is THIS intended?

IMHO that is what the rules say ought to happen, so therefore the CB is probably working as intended.

If y'all disagree, report it as a bug, and we'll see what happens.

Cheers, -- N

 

[abyssaldeath]

AV pg. 56 only applies to weapon powers. Implements have always operated by a completely different set of rules then weapons in 4e.

Subtle is a WEAPON enchantment. The rules for weapon enchantments don't change just because you are using it as an implement. Two completely separate rules that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[CovertOps]

IMHO that is what the rules say ought to happen, so therefore the CB is probably working as intended.

If y'all disagree, report it as a bug, and we'll see what happens.

Cheers, -- N

Do you know the reference for this Nifft?

 

[Nifft]

Do you know the reference for this Nifft?

The reference for DIS working with Quarterstaves? I can try to justify it, if that's what you're asking about.

The distinction between Staff (weapon class) and Staff (implement type) has never been made very clear in 4e, and the CB certainly doesn't clarify if any such distinction even exists -- so I can't pretend to have an unambiguous reference -- but I could show my chain of thought, if you want.

It's NOT a page reference or anything like that, though.

Cheers, -- N