Staff Fighting and Dual Implement Spellcaster

[Akaiku]

He means that if you have a staff of ruin and the appropriate feats, then you gain 3 times the enhancement bonus to damage with your attacks. This is fun because you're adding a ridiculous amount of damage from your item.

This.

It's 2 handed bloodclaw without the damage back at you. Just costs 2 (or 3) more feats. It has the nice +1 ac to go with it as well.

 

[N0Man]

I'd allow it just on the basis that otherwise a staff wizard is at a disadvantage to non-staff dual implement wielders, since a staff is a two-handed implement, according to the new Eberron Player's Guide (which I brought up in another thread).

 

[Caliban]

I'd allow it just on the basis that otherwise a staff wizard is at a disadvantage to non-staff dual implement wielders, since a staff is a two-handed implement, according to the new Eberron Player's Guide (which I brought up in another thread).

I think that is only in regards to using it as an attached component on a warforged, not for anything else.

Especially since I carried on a multiple e-mail exchange with Cust Serv on staffs as implements, weapons, the staff fighting feat, and TWF feats, which resulted in a change to the FAQ. At the moment, I'm pretty confident that a staff is a one-handed implement and a two-handed weapon. (Which isn't to say that the designers won't change their mind at some time in the future and issue new "clarifications". They did it once already with staff as implement/weapon and appear to be doing it again with the move into/enter a square distinction I've seen reported by some people.)

 

[N0Man]

At the moment, I'm pretty confident that a staff is a one-handed implement and a two-handed weapon.

I saw it exactly as you do, but after the Eberron Player's Guide I'm not so sure.

Two-Handed Implements, such as staffs, cannot be attached or embedded.

 

[Caliban]

I saw it exactly as you do, but after the Eberron Player's Guide I'm not so sure.

Yes, I read that the first time you posted it.

and in the post you replied to, I said

I think that is only in regards to using it as an attached component on a warforged, not for anything else.

Given the other errors in the warforged section (is it a minor action or 5 minutes to attach/remove a component?), I certainly don't consider the Eberron Player's guide a source of errata for the core rulebooks.

 

[Nifft]

IMHO staff is one of the best examples of a weapon that demands to be a special effect (rather than a rigidly defined element in a simulation). They are so iconic, and their (iconic) uses so different, it's going to be really hard to fit them all in a single balanced weapon.

Cheers, -- N

 

[lupo1977]

status quo ?

hi guys,

i was just skimming through the forums, in order to ssek an answer to my question regarding the "staff fighting" - "dual implement spellcaster" discussion.

i discovered these threads, and wanted to know if you know about any official (FAQ) rulings to this point ? i didn't find any, so the last thing i know is:

- character builder allows it
- cust. service allows it

is this still up to date ? (i do not have the char. builder at hand to validate this)

 

[Badwe]

Staff of Ruin Errata

Update (2/8/2010)
Replace the item’s property with the following text: “Whenever you make an attack using this staff, you gain an item bonus to the attack’s damage rolls equal to the staff’s enhancement bonus.” This change prevents this staff’s property from being used with the Dual Implement Spellcaster feat to gain disproportionate damage.
First published in Adventurer's Vault.

not really a complete answer but they seem to be aware of it. still reading it as written i'm not sure how much damage you deal...

 

[Aulirophile]

Staff of Ruin Errata



not really a complete answer but they seem to be aware of it. still reading it as written i'm not sure how much damage you deal...

If you cast through it, you deal Enhancement x2, if you don't cast through it (use it off-hand) you deal w/e your MH Enhancement is+Staff of Ruins Enhancement Bonus. That's it. If you take Staff Fighting and DIS you deal Enhancement bonus x3, same as before.

This makes Subtle Weapon better in the off-hand then Staff of Ruin. Will do the same amount of damage as the old combo, so long as you have CA. In fact I think Subtle is untyped, so Staff of Ruin/Subtle+DIS is Staff Enhancement x2 and Subtle Enhancement x2 to damage when attacking with CA (+24 at epic from your weapons!) Add Siberys Shard of the Mage for another +5. Sorcs can break +50 to damage with CA I think.

 

[abyssaldeath]

This makes Subtle Weapon better in the off-hand then Staff of Ruin.

No it doesn't. Weapon properties only apply to the weapon they are attached to. You need to actually attack with the Subtle Weapon to gain the bonus.

Many weapons have properties that provide a constant benefit. To gain the benefit of a weapon’s property, you must be wielding the weapon. Unless specified otherwise, a property affects only the weapon to which it’s attached. For example, a +2 cunning dagger, which bestows a –2 penalty to an enemy’s saving throws against your weapon powers, affects
only powers that are delivered using that weapon. You couldn’t hold the weapon in your off-hand and gain the benefit of the property on powers delivered using a main weapon.