Trickstergod
First Post
Psion said:
And you know, just as an aside, it seems I'll read a review and find that many of them state that the products a 4, but that the review itself reads like a 3.
Staff reviews of EN P's books
- Thread starter Crothian
- Start date
And you know, just as an aside, it seems I'll read a review and find that many of them state that the products a 4, but that the review itself reads like a 3.
MonsterMash
First Post
I'd only have a problem if an author reviews his own product. (after all this isn't Amazon) 
RangerWickett
Legend
As an author of a few of these books *big grin*, I'd like to weigh in a bit.
People were too generous early on. Remember, it was a year and a half into the d20 movement, and aside from the Book(s) of Eldritch Might and maybe some Ambient stuff (not sure on their timeline), there weren't that many pdf books that were getting high praise. So out we come with a pretty good little book, Wild Spellcraft, and we get 4s and 5s. At the time was thrilled because, of course, I thought my writing was the best thing since sliced chocolate cake.
In hindsight, I'd rate Wild Spellcraft as a 3, maybe a 4 because it was cheap and because I'd be a fool to give myself a low rating. The mechanics in WS are a little weak, really, but there's a lot of suggestions for adding nice wild flavor. I personally illustrated some of it (I did the female Dwarf pics), and so that will never go down as the highest production values in the world. But it was pretty good little book. Easily worth $6.
Tournaments, Fairs, and Taverns, however, has for some reason never gotten a 5th review, so it can't go onto the top 20 list (which it would if it got a 4 or a 5). For the time, I feel it was definitely a 4.2 to 4.5. It was a bit of a niche product, and while some of the rules are a little complicated (the races needed to be simplified for the print version, and the drinking is, in hindsight, poorly done), but there's just so much goodness in this book, I love it.
The print version is even better, more polished and with more games and fun (though sadly Mystic Eye didn't use any of Danilo Moretti's excellent illustrations). Still, I think the pdf version deserves a little over a 4. I feel comfortable saying so because most of the material was submitted by people other than me. I did almost all the mechanics, but the ideas and write-ups were done by ENWorlders. Great stuff all around.
Four-Color to Fantasy, I'll admit, is not the best superhero book for d20. We all know that's Mutants & Masterminds. But FCTF is the best sourcebook for adding powers to characters, regardless of genre. Whereas M&M rewrites d20 to suit superheroes, FCTF basically adds super-powers to d20, without changing any rules. Easy for plug-and-play usage. If we repackaged it and resold it as a primarily toolkit book, not a supers book, it would deserve a solid 4, I feel.
I still want a printed copy of the book, in full color, but *sigh* it could never be done. Hmph. I'll just put off my next D&D purchase and spend $20 to get my own book, gawgroggit!
The revised version, which is cross-compatible with D&D and d20 Modern, is a 4.5 if we're judging a powers toolkit, and a 3.7 if we're judging a superhero book. It's got slick production values (though, no offense to Hound who laid it out, but I fell in love with Duncan's original), and it provides all kind of goodies, and it gives you suggestions on how to use them. What more could you want?
Little bit of triva. While JL Jones did the cover art's characters, I drew the skyline in photoshop. *grin*
I wasn't involved with Steam & Steel, so I am not allowed to self-depecrate it. Honestly I haven't had a chance to read it fully, even though I'm running a steamtech game. I've got a player who loves the thing, though, and so I just tell him I've got X in mind, and he points me in the right direction.
So, Wild Spellcraft really ought not be in the top 20. FCTF ended up not being quite what it was advertised as, but I still think it deserves to be up there. It doesn't have a ton of 'coolness' factor; it's a toolkit. So it doesn't beat any of the top Malhavoc books, which are all supremely cool plus have good rules, but maybe somewhere around 15.
TFT does deserve to be in the Top 20, I feel, and if someone would be so kind as to review it, I'd be thrilled, even if you gave it a 3 or something. (A 2 would just be spiteful.)
Oh, and Elements of Magic? I'm sorry, but I think the book rocks. I will say nothing bad about it except that I should've had a different cover. The artist sucks, seriously. *grin* Don't worry, though, I'm good friends with him.
Anyway, please review us more. We tend to make a nice splash because we do products that aren't just collections of new crunchy bits, but I would be interested in seeing some reviews that look at our earlier books in hindsight.
By the way, what's the policy on publishers reviewing the work of others. I have Bruce Cordell's Mindscapes, and I love the thing.
People were too generous early on. Remember, it was a year and a half into the d20 movement, and aside from the Book(s) of Eldritch Might and maybe some Ambient stuff (not sure on their timeline), there weren't that many pdf books that were getting high praise. So out we come with a pretty good little book, Wild Spellcraft, and we get 4s and 5s. At the time was thrilled because, of course, I thought my writing was the best thing since sliced chocolate cake.
In hindsight, I'd rate Wild Spellcraft as a 3, maybe a 4 because it was cheap and because I'd be a fool to give myself a low rating. The mechanics in WS are a little weak, really, but there's a lot of suggestions for adding nice wild flavor. I personally illustrated some of it (I did the female Dwarf pics), and so that will never go down as the highest production values in the world. But it was pretty good little book. Easily worth $6.
Tournaments, Fairs, and Taverns, however, has for some reason never gotten a 5th review, so it can't go onto the top 20 list (which it would if it got a 4 or a 5). For the time, I feel it was definitely a 4.2 to 4.5. It was a bit of a niche product, and while some of the rules are a little complicated (the races needed to be simplified for the print version, and the drinking is, in hindsight, poorly done), but there's just so much goodness in this book, I love it.
The print version is even better, more polished and with more games and fun (though sadly Mystic Eye didn't use any of Danilo Moretti's excellent illustrations). Still, I think the pdf version deserves a little over a 4. I feel comfortable saying so because most of the material was submitted by people other than me. I did almost all the mechanics, but the ideas and write-ups were done by ENWorlders. Great stuff all around.
Four-Color to Fantasy, I'll admit, is not the best superhero book for d20. We all know that's Mutants & Masterminds. But FCTF is the best sourcebook for adding powers to characters, regardless of genre. Whereas M&M rewrites d20 to suit superheroes, FCTF basically adds super-powers to d20, without changing any rules. Easy for plug-and-play usage. If we repackaged it and resold it as a primarily toolkit book, not a supers book, it would deserve a solid 4, I feel.
I still want a printed copy of the book, in full color, but *sigh* it could never be done. Hmph. I'll just put off my next D&D purchase and spend $20 to get my own book, gawgroggit!
The revised version, which is cross-compatible with D&D and d20 Modern, is a 4.5 if we're judging a powers toolkit, and a 3.7 if we're judging a superhero book. It's got slick production values (though, no offense to Hound who laid it out, but I fell in love with Duncan's original), and it provides all kind of goodies, and it gives you suggestions on how to use them. What more could you want?
Little bit of triva. While JL Jones did the cover art's characters, I drew the skyline in photoshop. *grin*
I wasn't involved with Steam & Steel, so I am not allowed to self-depecrate it. Honestly I haven't had a chance to read it fully, even though I'm running a steamtech game. I've got a player who loves the thing, though, and so I just tell him I've got X in mind, and he points me in the right direction.
So, Wild Spellcraft really ought not be in the top 20. FCTF ended up not being quite what it was advertised as, but I still think it deserves to be up there. It doesn't have a ton of 'coolness' factor; it's a toolkit. So it doesn't beat any of the top Malhavoc books, which are all supremely cool plus have good rules, but maybe somewhere around 15.
TFT does deserve to be in the Top 20, I feel, and if someone would be so kind as to review it, I'd be thrilled, even if you gave it a 3 or something. (A 2 would just be spiteful.)
Oh, and Elements of Magic? I'm sorry, but I think the book rocks. I will say nothing bad about it except that I should've had a different cover. The artist sucks, seriously. *grin* Don't worry, though, I'm good friends with him.
Anyway, please review us more. We tend to make a nice splash because we do products that aren't just collections of new crunchy bits, but I would be interested in seeing some reviews that look at our earlier books in hindsight.
By the way, what's the policy on publishers reviewing the work of others. I have Bruce Cordell's Mindscapes, and I love the thing.
Ryan
It took bones to post what you just posted. Well done. I respect that.
Psion
Half of me completely agrees with you on the idea of dropping the scoring system. It would solve so many issues that people have with reviews (not just ENWorld's either!). Then the other half of me says, the heck with the namby-pamby whiners!! Take that 1, take it!!
ENP Reviewing its OWN STUFF!
Bad, Bad idea. Whether the reviews are totally accurate and fair, a lot people will look at them suspiciously. Rightly so, i might add because its just bad form. I don't read those reveiws simply because of the conflict of interest (even if its just a teensy-weensy bit). I know when i see that ENP's products dominate the charts, my first thought is riiiiiiight. Most of that is fanboy reviews, not ENW staff reviewers, i'm sure. But that doesn't stop idea (or possibility) of "contamination". Its just a bad idea. I'm not sitting here decrying the staff reviewers or accusing anyone of crimes against gaming.
For the most part, i know these days i don't really care about the scores, i want to just read the review. I'll admit that i might check out 1's just to see the trash talking that might exist there (i'm a rubberneck that way. no excuses), even if i'm not interested in the product. But 4's and 5's don't impress me, simply because i know that every company and even specific products have their fanboys (and detractors, too) that ALWAYS muddle the scores and reviews. I know that i only accept my opinion and the opinion of one or two people and ignore the rest.
I guess, in retrospect of this post, i completely support Psion's call to ditch the scoring system all together. That would make a fabulous Poll, i think.
It took bones to post what you just posted. Well done. I respect that.
Psion
Half of me completely agrees with you on the idea of dropping the scoring system. It would solve so many issues that people have with reviews (not just ENWorld's either!). Then the other half of me says, the heck with the namby-pamby whiners!! Take that 1, take it!!
ENP Reviewing its OWN STUFF!
Bad, Bad idea. Whether the reviews are totally accurate and fair, a lot people will look at them suspiciously. Rightly so, i might add because its just bad form. I don't read those reveiws simply because of the conflict of interest (even if its just a teensy-weensy bit). I know when i see that ENP's products dominate the charts, my first thought is riiiiiiight. Most of that is fanboy reviews, not ENW staff reviewers, i'm sure. But that doesn't stop idea (or possibility) of "contamination". Its just a bad idea. I'm not sitting here decrying the staff reviewers or accusing anyone of crimes against gaming.
For the most part, i know these days i don't really care about the scores, i want to just read the review. I'll admit that i might check out 1's just to see the trash talking that might exist there (i'm a rubberneck that way. no excuses), even if i'm not interested in the product. But 4's and 5's don't impress me, simply because i know that every company and even specific products have their fanboys (and detractors, too) that ALWAYS muddle the scores and reviews. I know that i only accept my opinion and the opinion of one or two people and ignore the rest.
I guess, in retrospect of this post, i completely support Psion's call to ditch the scoring system all together. That would make a fabulous Poll, i think.
Psion
Adventurer
I wasn't exactly calling for an end to the scoring system. Though that certainly would make my life less complicated.
I am more just pointing out that you should cleft unto the scoring systems what weaknesses belong to the scoring system and not tack it onto the reviews themselves.
I am more just pointing out that you should cleft unto the scoring systems what weaknesses belong to the scoring system and not tack it onto the reviews themselves.
RangerWickett
Legend
PJ-Mason said:
?
I was talking about reviewing a Malhavoc product that I think is gravy. I just wasn't sure if there's any sort of professional prohibition against posting a review of another publisher's book.
I really hope that in 2 years I won't come back and post, "Oh, and by the way, Elements of Magic revised is crap too." I hope I'm a good judge of my own talent, but . . . no, that's just not possible.
Similar Threads
