Staff Wizards and Weapon Focus Staff

[Lab_Monkey]

I'm torn as to whether I think this is a good thing or a bad thing. It always seemed unfair that the martial classes were getting bonuses to damage on all their weapon attacks from one feat (Weapon Focus) with no prereqs. So it is nice to see the arcane classes getting somewhat equal treatment.

Is there a similar option for wand, rod, orb, and/or holy symbol users? Someone mentioned implement focus, but I'm unfamiliar with this feat. If not, then it seems weird to just give this to the staff wizards/sorcerers. Staffs have always been my favorite implement, but it would be nice to see other builds be made viable.

LM

 

[Caliban]

Something else that may also become a problem with sorcerers (and I would guess warlocks too): the Daggermaster PP. Its wording is vague enough that you can gain the 18-20 crit. with spells. The Weapon Mastery Feats specifically say that you must use the weapons in melee, Daggermaster does not.

This already came up with warlocks using dagger pactblades. At that time, Cust Serv said it would only work with melee attacks.

Might be worth sending that question in again, to see if WOTC has changed their minds.

 

[Bolongo]

Someone mentioned implement focus, but I'm unfamiliar with this feat.

That's because there is no such feat in the rules.
But it seems to be a more and more common houserule, since the weapon focus ruling is blatantly unfair to casters with a non-weapon implement, and the elemental damage feats are just plain stupid.

 

[parcival42]

Ah, I didn't realize that there was a customer service ruling regarding pactblades/daggermaster. It seems an odd ruling since the text of daggermaster seems to allow it. I is probably too powerful and needs errata, but it does seem to be valid RAW.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Is it really overpowered to allow Daggermaster for warlock pact blade users or sorcerers though?

Both are strikers. Both are taking a striker paragon path (albeit a rogue one).

An argument can be made that Daggermaster is very powerful and might in of itself be broken (I don't think so personally), but I don't think it's necessarily broken just because other classes can take it.

 

[parcival42]

I'm not 100% sure it would be broken, but, given that I've seen so many people make a big deal over the Daggermaster's high crit range using daggers, it makes me wonder how people are going to feel about an 18-20 crit range with powers that do d10s & d12s.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm quite happy with it, since the staff power always seemed to be the weakest of the implement powers to me, especially since it is reactive rather than proactive. Sure it's good when it comes up, but my staff wizard hasn't had the opportunity to use ever yet! Orbs certainly don't need any power boost, and wands can give a hefty bonus to hit - perhaps if the wand of accuracy bonus applied to all targets in a burst or blast it would bring it up to the same level?

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

Something else that may also become a problem with sorcerers (and I would guess warlocks too): the Daggermaster PP. Its wording is vague enough that you can gain the 18-20 crit. with spells. The Weapon Mastery Feats specifically say that you must use the weapons in melee, Daggermaster does not.

Could still be a problem with Sorcerers who choose the feat which allows them to change their attack spells into dagger-delivered melee attacks. They should still benefit just fine from daggermaster. double - eek.

 

[AngryPurpleCyclops]

I don't like this one bit.

Have to agree. The more things overlap in unplanned ways the more exposure there is to broken combos.

Interesting...I hadn't even thought of using Weapon Focus for staffs before. I agree with Mal. Its bad. It makes staffs a bit better than the other two implements, since you get more from taking Weapon Focus than you would for taking Implement Focus (perhaps not a lot unless you want to use your staff in melee) and it also invalidates all the other "+1 to two types of damage" feats.

Pretty minor that you get the melee damage but pretty major that you get the spell damage since it's got no prereqs and effectively gives you all the element feats wrapped up in one. +1 damage stacks, so you can have both, but why ever take the element feat first.

Is it really overpowered to allow Daggermaster for warlock pact blade users or sorcerers though?

Both are strikers. Both are taking a striker paragon path (albeit a rogue one).

An argument can be made that Daggermaster is very powerful and might in of itself be broken (I don't think so personally), but I don't think it's necessarily broken just because other classes can take it.

The problem is exponential combos down the road. This seems to be a slippery slope.

I'm quite happy with it, since the staff power always seemed to be the weakest of the implement powers to me, especially since it is reactive rather than proactive. Sure it's good when it comes up, but my staff wizard hasn't had the opportunity to use ever yet! Orbs certainly don't need any power boost, and wands can give a hefty bonus to hit - perhaps if the wand of accuracy bonus applied to all targets in a burst or blast it would bring it up to the same level?

Cheers

Wand seems by far the weakest to me. The +1AC passive ability of staff alone probably out performs wand. Coupled with the ~10-15% chance of blocking any attack (max one per encounter but after damage rolls) far exceeds the bonus to hit that likely only changes the outcome 1 encounter in 7-10. Wand has the added penalty of decreased fort or will defense. Mathematically, staff far outstrips the other two until you reach lock down with the orb. wand has a slight increase in value in that you'll frequently use it on a "big power" so it has added weight on a success but it's way behind in utility.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I didn't think this would apply to a wizard using a Staff, but then I used the character builder to test out a staff wizard build - Staff Fighting, Two Weapon Fighting, and Weapon Focus.

The character builder added the damage bonus from TWF and WF to all his spells.

Re-reading the original post, it strikes me as really bizarre if TWF with a staff added the damage bonus to spells. What does *that* look like