Stalker0's New Skill Challenge System (Version 1.0)

[Stalker0]

For people commenting about skillfull recovery and critical success...you have been heard!! My new version is revamping these, I think you'll like the final result.

 

[bert1000]

Allowed Skills: When a DM sets up a skill challenge, he can choose a number of skills that the players may use for the challenge. These are known as “allowed skills”. He may also allow the players to choose their own skills, provided they can provide a good reason for their use.

Non-allowed Skills: A player may wish to use a skill that the DM has decided not to allow for the challenge. If the DM wishes, he can allow the player to use the skill, but only for the purpose of aiding another, and with a hard instead of easy DC (see below).

Can you say a little more about how you are thinking about this for the next version?

If a DM allows a player to choose a skill he has not initially "allowed" (1st paragraph), does that check now become an "allowed check" at moderate DC? And only if the DM does not think it is relevant and the player does it anyway, it becomes not-allowed? Or are you saying that any skill not on the initial list is a non-allowed skill at hard DC?

The reason this is important to me, is that I like loose flowing skill challenges. So, I'd like "allowed skills"/primary skills to have moderate DCs with very good chance of individual roll success for a player with high ability score + training. And I'd like creative uses of non-primary skills (1x per challenge) to be rewarded with a good chance of success and it is a better option than aid another. IMO, the system should encourage players coming up with uses for their top skills over aid another, and this roll should on average help not hurt the overall success of the challenge.

Thanks for the great work!

 

[Harr]

If a DM allows a player to choose a skill he has not initially "allowed" (1st paragraph), does that check now become an "allowed check" at moderate DC? And only if the DM does not think it is relevant and the player does it anyway, it becomes not-allowed? Or are you saying that any skill not on the initial list is a non-allowed skill at hard DC?

I could be wrong here of course, but seems to me that what skills are or aren't allowed and whether they become allowed or not-allowed halfway through or anything like that is the DM's job (in deisgning the actual challenge), that is to say, none of that stuff would make any difference to the system itself. Would it?

 

[Stalker0]

Can you say a little more about how you are thinking about this for the next version?

If a DM allows a player to choose a skill he has not initially "allowed" (1st paragraph), does that check now become an "allowed check" at moderate DC? And only if the DM does not think it is relevant and the player does it anyway, it becomes not-allowed? Or are you saying that any skill not on the initial list is a non-allowed skill at hard DC?

To clarify, normally the DM sets his allowed skills as skill that he feels are appropriate to the challenge. Or, he could simply say any skill could be appropriate if the player convinces him.

The rule on non-allowed skill is when a player asks to use a skill that the DM doesn't really feel is appropriate to the encounter, but would like to say yes to the player. By using aid another, it allows the player to use the skill but not in a direct way.

This is also to prevent a player from trying to "abuse" the system by always using his best skill, for example a rogue with skill focus in bluff, a big magic item to bluff, and utility powers to effect bluff.

However, as the DM, if a player makes a good case for a skill being on the allowed skill list, then certainly let them roll it with a moderate DC. I will make this clearer in my new version.

 

[mrtomsmith]

I've been playing around with something that happens to be similar to your Skillful Recovery idea. My thought had been to 'assign' a skill to play this role, rather than tie it to critical successes. It seems like this would normally be linked to a specific skill (generally Bluff for lower-class social situations, Diplomacy for upper-class social situations, and Athletics for physical situations), rather than allowing players to roll any of the allowed skills. The DM assigns which skill as part of creating the challenge. I was going to limit it to once per turn, and possibly have it replace the savior player's next action if it needs a little more cost.

Specifically, I'm going to have characters performing, and allow another character to use Bluff to cover failure up by making the crowd think the failure was part of the act.

Haven't had a chance to try it out yet myself, but I thought I'd mention the parallel thinking. Your idea is similar to my idea, so it must be a good idea .

 

[Paranoia23]

This is great: I'll definitely use it in my game. I agree with earlier posters that an element of risky, real choices is key. I'm also glad to hear that you have each character type's fun in mind as you design the system (e.g. giving the skill monkey a chance to be a hero without ruining the basic mechanic).

 

[Harr]

Right, we just got done with our session tonight. We're in the middle of KotS. I've taken massive liberties with the characters and tonight I inserted an original roleplay-intensive extra-long plot scene where players interacted with certain very emotional events happening in Padraig's mansion grounds.

I directed the whole thing through three consecutive complexity 1 (3 win/3 fail) skill challenges from your system, with difficulties 17, 19, and 21 respectively (I progressively wanted them to fail their objectives more and more as they went on, for the sake of the story, but the bastards managed to pull a win out of nowhere in the end).

As for the result, right now all I can say is it worked like a frickin dream. It's 3am here and I gotta sleep but tomorrow I'll be back and post a more in-depth analysis of what happened. There are a couple points of confusion. But overall we could not be happier with it. Out of the many different variations of challenges I've played with this is definitely one of my favorites, if not "the" favorite.

 

[Lokathor]

edit: moved to the other 1.6 thread.

 

[Harr]

Well dang, I was all set to write up a detailed roll-by-roll report of our skill-scene when I saw that version 1.6 is already out in another thread. So I'll give highlights of our game. Also excuse any typoes since I'm typing this out in one go, very fast and no time to proof-read.

It also bears mentioning that my games are completely transparent in that the players are aware of every rule and DC in play and I roll every die in the open. There is zero fudging of any kind. Party is level 2 and skill bonuses range from -1 to +13, withthe average being +9.



*** WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS IMPLIED SPOILERS FOR KEEP ON THE SHADOWFELL ***



Ok here we go...

(It's been established in our KotS game that Lord Padraig and Ninaran are lovers and engaged, and that Lord Padraig has a daughter, Elisa, from a former marriage. Also the players are well-aware that Ninaran is the spy in Winterhaven, and she has taunted them a few times from her invulnerable position beside Padraig.)

The skill challenges begin when the players hear the soul-tearing scream of Lord Padraig finding his daughter with her throat slit open (this having been done the previous night by Ninaran) and run to the mansion courtyard.

First challenge is given by me: Calm down Lord Padraig and prevent him from going on a rampage (complexity 3/3, DC 17). Ninaran points at the party and accuses them of the deed, but with some diplomacy (+11), streetwise (+8), and bluff (+9) rolls they are able to avert the blame from themselves and onto Ninaran (1 fail, 3 wins, with 1 fail averted thanks to the use of a Critical Success). Lord Padraig is shattered yet again as his confidence in Ninaran crumbles and he orders her arrested.

Ninaran is able to lay her hand on the dead Elisa's forehead before she is grabbed by the guards, and as she is marched off, Elisa opens her eyes and staggers to her knees, whispering that she wants her daddy (she is a wight now). Lord Padraig desperately runs to his daughter and has his life siphoned out from him by her, but the players protest this and thus we retcon a little bit and have our second challenge: Keep Lord Padraig from touching his daughter and convince him of what she is (complexity 3/3, DC 19).

Players roll Athletics (+2), and succeed in restraining the Lord, then Intimidate (+11) Diplomacy (+11) and Bluff (+9)(aiding the diplomacy) to try to convince him that it's not really his daughter, but with the higher DC and a bad streak of luck they are down to 2 fails and only 1 win before Sister Linora bursts in on the scene and proclaims that the only course of action is to kill the little wight. The party's paladin decides to break off the challenge and buries his axe in her little head, prompting the failure of the challenge.

Padraig goes almost insane with grief once again, believing his daughter dead twice, but still believing Ninaran to be responsible for everything. He orders the guards to release her, grab her and announces that he will deal with her himself, in private. This is according to my plan for Ninaran to kill him and escape so she can appear later in the graveyard combat. But the players aren't having it, and we have the third and final challenge: Prevent Padraig from leaving with Ninaran (complexity 3/3, DC 21 since I really did not want them to make it).

Players roll Diplomacy (+11), Streetwise (+8), Aracana (+6), and Bluff (+9) to make different arguments to Padraig about why he should keep her there in front of everyone. But the higher DC has its effect and the players end up with 2 fails, 2 wins. Only one roll to go. The paladin decides to roll Intimidate (+11) basically saying "Either judge her here in front of us or I'll kill her right now myself", and believe it or not, rolls a 20. Critical Success. The players went fricking wild. I had no idea what to do. Then I got it. Padraig snapped, lost all semblance of control, shoved Ninaran down to the ground, took out his greatsword, and slew her on the spot. And that was that.

***

So! Could it have gone any better? Doubt it. Thanks to the challenges I had a great framework on which to propel the scene, I had excellent waypoints on which moments were important and which were not, and a good handle on when to push for climax. All in all: awesome.

Players were engaged and freely discussed their Critical Successes, stunts, and offered to Aid Another when someone had a low roll. At no point did any kind of hopelessness set in but also at all times there was the real threat of failure. That final roll was so ridiculously exciting I still can't believe it. Picture the paladin's player (a very tall,very heavy-set guy ) jumping up to his feet and jabbing his finger and shouting at his die "YES!! YES!! THAT'S WHAT YOU GET! THAT'S WHAT YOU #$%@ING GET!!! YES!!" And high-fives all around.

On the negative side, players reported that Daredevil Stunts were particularly confusing (I get a critical success but it's not an automatic success... whaaa???) and that a Hard DC for a Recovery roll seemed kind of sucky when the only way could get to do it was with a Critical, so you have to get a Critical AND do a Hard roll?? Seems too much.

Sooo anyways, I guess all this is obsolete now but hopefully you (Stalker0) enjoyed reading how your system was put to actual-play use. On Sunday I'm giving the 1.6 rules a try. We'll see which ones are better received. It's gonna be a tough sell for 1.6 after all this I can assure you

 

[Stalker0]

Its wonderful to hear your players had a good time using my system, that's the best kind of praise I could receive.

I hope they enjoy 1.6 as much as 1.0, actually, I hope moreso