D&D 4E Standing Guard in 4e...no rest for you?

[Knightlord]

HOLY FREAKING GOD!

What is wrong with you people? Are you allergic to just having fun? Can't anything at all about this made up fantasy game be simple for you?

LET ME ASURE YOU, THIS GAME IS FUN... IF YOU WILL LET IT BE.

While I myself understand what you are saying, I don't believe you conveyed it in the most polite manner. I'm not a moderator, and have no authority here, but don't you think you could have presented your view a little more diplomatically?

 

[Spinachcat]

HOLY FREAKING GOD!

Yes? You rang?

My query is because I run games with nocturnal monsters and often run games with players who decide to sleep inside dungeons. The issue with extended rest with healing surges and full HP recovery does come into play here.

So...what about this:

A fighter with 50 HP is down to 10 HP with no more healing surges. He goes to sleep. Three hours later, goblins attack his camp.

How many HP does he have now?

How many healing surges does he have?

 

[Belphanior]

When I saw the extended rest was 6 hours instead of 8 I immediately assumed that it was exactly about this. Four people can now stand guard 2 hours each ands till rest within 8 hours of "sleep". This rule was made precisely to put an end to discussions like this.

 

[Dausuul]

I'm assuming that 6 hours can be broken up. I don't think it's a coincidence that 6 hours is exactly the amount of sleep required to let a party of 4 PCs rest for 8 hours with each taking a turn on watch.

HOLY FREAKING GOD!

What is wrong with you people? Are you allergic to just having fun? Can't anything at all about this made up fantasy game be simple for you?

LET ME ASURE YOU, THIS GAME IS FUN... IF YOU WILL LET IT BE.

*shrug* The question of who's on watch at any given time of night is often a critically important one. The question of exactly how much sleep PCs need, and how it can be organized, is not as vital but still comes up now and then.

For any question of this nature, there are two ways to answer it: Put a rule in the book, or have the DM invent an answer on the fly. Each has good points and bad points. Rules in the book have the advantage of consistency; players don't have to consult the DM every time, and DMs don't have to remember what they ruled last time. DM fiat has the advantage of speed (you don't have to dig around looking up rules) and the ability to tailor the ruling to a specific situation.

Thus, book rules are best suited for situations that come up a lot and don't involve a lot of imponderables. DM fiat is best suited for bizarre corner-case scenarios and situations where there are a lot of variables that factor into the outcome. The question is which category the questions "How much sleep do you need, and what happens if you get woken up in the middle?" belong in.

Since the situation comes up reasonably often and doesn't involve a lot of imponderables, I'd say it ought to be a book rule.

 

[Crothian]

HOLY FREAKING GOD!

What is wrong with you people? Are you allergic to just having fun? Can't anything at all about this made up fantasy game be simple for you?

LET ME ASURE YOU, THIS GAME IS FUN... IF YOU WILL LET IT BE.

For some people, this is what makes it fun.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So...what about this:

A fighter with 50 HP is down to 10 HP with no more healing surges. He goes to sleep. Three hours later, goblins attack his camp.
How many HP does he have now?
How many healing surges does he have?

It's up to the DM but I'd give him about a third. He got half the rest time, and there should be a bit of a loss, but he's had 3 hours of sleep so he should be at least a little rested.

I'd also rule that he'd now need 4 hours more to make up for the interruption. It's not an exact science, and I don't think it SHOULD be. That way you can add in any factors you'd like, like how comfortable the rest was.

Fitz

 

[invokethehojo]

I understand the need for rule, but discussions of this ilk make it seem like you people want rules for everything... I won't go into my opinions on that but I will state one thing...

games with rules for everything exist, they're called video game rpg's. If that's what you want go play one and leave us alone, if not play this and use your imagination.

 

[abeattie]

So the question becomes, can you break up an extended rest? If we camp for 12 hours, then two teams can get extended rests. If we camp for 8 hours, everyone can do 2 hours watch and 6 hours rest that gets broken up at some point in the night.

If they don't I will.

I see alot of these problems as so easily house-ruled into oblivion (if they're not addressed in the rules) that I wonder why we bother with them?

Or, better, (with warning to the players that this is so) alter the result to better fit the story.

>shrug<

They're just rules. If they don't all work, twist them a bit.

 

[Firevalkyrie]

I generally simply don't bother with nighttime encounters in camp. Either an encounter happens as the PCs are making camp in the evening, or as they're breaking camp in the morning.

 

[Dausuul]

It's up to the DM but I'd give him about a third. He got half the rest time, and there should be a bit of a loss, but he's had 3 hours of sleep so he should be at least a little rested.

I'd also rule that he'd now need 4 hours more to make up for the interruption. It's not an exact science, and I don't think it SHOULD be. That way you can add in any factors you'd like, like how comfortable the rest was.

Fitz

For simplicity's sake, I'd be inclined to say you don't get your "stuff" back until you've had the full six hours. In the middle of an ambush scene, the last thing I want is players trying to figure out how many of their dailies and healing surges they got back. Either you got 'em back or you didn't.

I understand the need for rule, but discussions of this ilk make it seem like you people want rules for everything... I won't go into my opinions on that but I will state one thing...

games with rules for everything exist, they're called video game rpg's. If that's what you want go play one and leave us alone, if not play this and use your imagination.

Leave us alone? What is this "us?" We, the OP and most of the other posters in this thread, were having a perfectly good discussion of how sleeping and recovery of daily abilities might be handled in the new edition. All of us seemed pretty happy with where we were and what we were doing. You were the one who came in complaining about our badwrongfun. If you don't like this thread, don't read it.