D&D 4E Standing Guard in 4e...no rest for you?

[Hairfoot]

Also, in 3e, when camps were attacked, there was this feeling of "let's let the casters sleep through the attack if we can" that, in my mind, didn't seriously add to the fun.

Actually, I quite like considerations like that. I enjoy planning and resource management as part of the game, although it requires a DM who won't do you over with an attack every night.

 

[IceFractal]

It wasn't really necessary to have the casters sleep through attacks in 3E - if your rest got interrupted, it wasn't ruined, you just needed an extra hour for each interruption.

Which is probably how I'd run it in 4E as well:
* Restful activities (not requiring exertion or alertness) count as rest.
* Activities requiring alertness don't count as rest, but they don't penalize it either. So, 2 hours sleep/2 hours watch/4 hours sleep counts as 6 hours of rest.
* Activities requiring exertion, like fighting, interrupt rest, but don't ruin it. For each interruption, you need an extra hour of rest.
* You get all your resources back at once when rest is complete, to keep things simple.


Incidentally, I'm not convinced that "one extended rest per day" is a good thing. Sure, nobody wants the 15-minute day. But it isn't always preventable. Sometimes the players might just roll really badly, and after just one or two encounters be so drained that they need to rest before going on. And I'm not talking about the players wanting to "nova" every battle - even the most resource-conserving party can find themselves in this situation.

In those cases, I'd rather have them rest for six hours, than sit around twiddling their thumbs for 17 hours and then rest for six hours. Making the extended rest once per day won't stop people from resting when they need to, it'll just make that rest take much longer in-game.

 

[invokethehojo]

EDITED FOR INSULTING LANGUAGE

(and I'm sure no one will like me stating something most of you need to hear so I'll see you all at the end of my aformentioned three day ban, adios!)

Enjoy your five-day ban for deliberately ignoring a moderator's warning.

 

[Falling Icicle]

What's fun for you isn't going to be what's fun for everyone else. Some people like challenge and a degree of realism in their games. My group has always planned out watch rotations, camp setup, etc before resting, and it added a fun strategic element to the game. What's fun is not always what's easy.

 

[Kordeth]

Actually, I quite like considerations like that. I enjoy planning and resource management as part of the game, although it requires a DM who won't do you over with an attack every night.

Sure, it sounds like strategic resource management, but what it really boils down to is my wizard spending an hour and a half of real-time with a pillow jammed in his ear while the rest of you meat-shields bludgeon things with heavy objects. And that's not fun for me.

Incidentally, I'm not convinced that "one extended rest per day" is a good thing. Sure, nobody wants the 15-minute day. But it isn't always preventable. Sometimes the players might just roll really badly, and after just one or two encounters be so drained that they need to rest before going on. And I'm not talking about the players wanting to "nova" every battle - even the most resource-conserving party can find themselves in this situation.

At that point I'd rather they retreat back to town and lick their wounds--or if the plot has been engineered such that they really can't spare 24 hours, I'll retcon the next treasure they find to include a few extra healing potions.

 

[shadewest]

If you need solid rules, try this:
hours 1-4: 1 healing surge worth of HP
hour 5: refresh healing surges
hour 6: refresh daily powers

That's quick and dirty, but it should get most groups by.

 

[Rechan]

As a DM, I'd say "It depends on what effect I want."

If I Want the PCs to be at their last, no resources, no nothin', then yes, they get squat. Because I am trying to drive home the desperation, the sense of peril, the "Oh crap"ness. But if I don't, then I'll give them a portion of their stuff back.

But then, I'm from the school of "It only applies if it's pertinent to the story"; I don't make PCs count ammunition and rations unless they're lost int he wilderness or cut off from supplies, trapped in a siege situation, etc. Otherwise it's mindless book keeping, and not fun for me.

Regardless, if a Rule Must Be Made, then I would say this: 1 healing surge per hour, no dailies until the entire rest (otherwise players will blow a daily and then go back to bed, rest and get it back).

 

[Ahglock]

I am not sure how I want this to pan out. I think some interruptions should not break the rest period, but others should. I remember early D&D where my DM ran it so every interruption interrupted rest, and mysteriously a rat or a single kobold would attack at night while the cleric was sleeping far too often. I had similar problems with item creation, any interruption disrupts your efforts and you have to start over. I'm like he used a wand once..He can't just gt back to work?

On the other hand if a dozen orcs ambush the party and they barely live through the nighttime ambush, I'd think going back to sleep and getting a solid rest would be fairly hard.

I guess my basic idea would be the use of any daily interrupts rest, losing 25% of your HP or more interrupts rest. Otherwise you are cool it was a minor encounter and you go back to bed and sleep soundly.

Also I'd say nothing is gained mid rest, until your 6 hours are up you get nothing.

 

[Saeviomagy]

On the other hand if a dozen orcs ambush the party and they barely live through the nighttime ambush, I'd think going back to sleep and getting a solid rest would be fairly hard.

I would have thought that sleeping after that would, assuming they're confident it won't happen again, be easier.

Now whether they gain the full benefits is another question.

I think the real question being asked here is "should a nighttime encounter reduce the resources available the next day?"

I think the followup question is "is it fun to have a nighttime encounter reduce the resources available the next day?"

Personally I think the answer is generally no.
Specifically if the players are taking reasonable caution when setting up camp, I'd at most say that the ambush means their rest time is extended by the length of the engagement. The purpose of the encounter was to push the adventurers that little bit more at the end of a day, not to make their next day harder. If you try to make them continue adventuring without getting the full benefits of rest, they'll just take a day off and rest again.

If the aim is to punish the players for just not bothering (we sleep in the guard's bunks! we sleep in the dungeon's kitchen etc), or move them on from somewhere (we sleep at the base of the city monument to save on inn fees!) then increase the amount each interruption adds to the time needed. The second adds an hour, the third 2 hours etc. with a hard max of 6 hours, or the DM giving up the campaign as a bad idea.

Oh, and given the stated purpose of a nighttime encounter - no, the party gets no benefit from partial rest.

 

[Dalamar]

It wasn't really necessary to have the casters sleep through attacks in 3E - if your rest got interrupted, it wasn't ruined, you just needed an extra hour for each interruption.

Sure, they could wake up. But if they used any spells, they wouldn't be gaining them back in the morning since you can't regain spells spent in the last 8 hours.