Standing up from prone

[KarinsDad]

Taking a full-round action to stand up from prone is a house rule. That was what my comment was towards. Taking a move action to go from prone to kneeling and another move action to go from kneeling to standing is... questionable at best, but that was not what I was commenting on. Taking a full-round action and taking 2 move actions is not the same thing, right?

He was replying directly to the original posters comment.

He meant you lose two move actions (or the equivalent of a full action) in order to stand from prone.

Oh, and can you quote what type of action it is to go from prone to kneeling and from kneeling to standing? Is it actually a move action? A free action? not an action at all?

Good question. Since going from prone to standing is a move action, it would appear that going from prone to sitting or kneeling should also be a move action.

The point is that kneeling (or sitting) is allowed in the game. Hence, as DM, you should come up with a rule as to what prone to kneeling or kneeling to standing is with regard to actions. A move action seems reasonable. Anything else does not. IMO. YMMV.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think Caliban is referring to "crawling 5 feet" and not doing an instant "stand from prone".

In which case you are still prone after the crawl. I still do not understand the full speed tumble aspect. Does this imply that he gets to use a move action for the crawl without the half move aspect?

 

[RigaMortus2]

In which case you are still prone after the crawl. I still do not understand the full speed tumble aspect. Does this imply that he gets to use a move action for the crawl without the half move aspect?

Well, if you are prone, can you tumble? Because if so, instead of taking a full round action to crawl back 5 feet (and provoke an AoO), you can tumble back 5 feet (using just 5 feet of your normal movement). I think...

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Problem is that the tripper will just dump the trippee back down to prone on the tripper's turn. There's another recent thread that deals with withdrawing while prone that might of interest to the original poster.

Personally, I think this aspect of melee needs looking at and revising whenever 4E comes out (and hopefully that won't be for a while). IMO, tripping is too easy for the hindrance that it incurs.

All that being said, I've seen fighter-types just choose to fight from the ground to avoid losing their attacks/actions. There's a feat that helps (Prone Fighting?) but no one ever takes it. But if your attack bonus is +25 or something, a -4 penalty is far better than wasting attacks. Which then results in a significant number of battles in which the prone character spends the battle on the ground (which is silly, IMHO).

 

[Caliban]

In which case you are still prone after the crawl. I still do not understand the full speed tumble aspect. Does this imply that he gets to use a move action for the crawl without the half move aspect?

While you are prone, you can crawl 5' as a move action that provokes an AoO.

You can try to tumble to avoid the AoO, but that reduces your speed to less than 5', which means you would have to take a full round action to move the 5'.

If you do the DC 25 full speed tumble, you can tumble 5' away as a move action, which hopefully puts you in a non-threatened square so that you can stand up as a move action without provoking an AoO.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually use it, but it should work (unless the DM rules that you can't tumble while prone).

Oh, and the Complete Adventurer allows a DC 35 check to stand from prone as a free action that still provokes an AoO.

 

[KarinsDad]

Oh, and the Complete Adventurer allows a DC 35 check to stand from prone as a free action that still provokes an AoO.

Complete Warrior has a Prone Attack feat that allows you to get up as a free action as well if you are successful with a melee attack. It also still provokes an AoO, but the opponent does not get the bonus to hit you because you are prone.

 

[Caliban]

Complete Warrior has a Prone Attack feat that allows you to get up as a free action as well if you are successful with a melee attack. It also still provokes an AoO, but the opponent does not get the bonus to hit you because you are prone.

I don't think it's clear that it provokes an AoO when you use the Prone Attack feat to stand up. In general, free actions don't provoke an AoO so it's usually spelled out when they do (as it does with the Rapid Reload feat in the PHB and the "stand as a free action" tumble check in the Complete Adventurer).

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't think it's clear that it provokes an AoO when you use the Prone Attack feat to stand up. In general, free actions don't provoke an AoO so it's usually spelled out when they do (as it does with the Rapid Reload feat in the PHB and the "stand as a free action" tumble check in the Complete Adventurer).

Standing up from Prone is a move action and it provokes.

The feat explicitly changes the move action to a free action, but it does not explicitly take away the AoO.

Plus, the PHB states that free actions typically do not provoke, not that they never provoke.

I think in order to gain the benefit of not provoking, the feat would have to explicitly state it.

The feat already gives quite a bit:

1) Can attack from prone without taking the to hit penalty.
2) Can be attacked while prone without taking the penalty to AC.
3) Can do a full round attack and still stand from prone.


I think it's pretty clear that if the feat does not give you a specific benefit, you don't get it.

 

[Caliban]

Plus, the PHB states that free actions typically do not provoke, not that they never provoke.

That's what I said in my post.

I think in order to gain the benefit of not provoking, the feat would have to explicitly state it.

I think that in order for a free action to provoke, it would specifically state it. Otherwise it's a typical free action.

Every other time (that I'm aware of) that a free action provokes, it's been clearly stated.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think that in order for a free action to provoke, it would specifically state it. Otherwise it's a typical free action.

There is no such thing as a typical free action.

Free actions provoke if the action you are doing provokes. Standing up from prone provokes. Turning it into a free action does not stop that unless the feat says that it stops that.

This is really stretching Cal.

Every other time (that I'm aware of) that a free action provokes, it's been clearly stated.

This one does as well. The action is called Standing up from Prone which provokes.