Standing up from prone
- Thread starter mostholy2
- Start date
Infiniti2000
First Post
Exactly. So, then the debate became "which interpretation has more merit?" One the one hand, you and Hyp look to the rule on typical free actions. KD and I look toward the rule on Standing Up from Prone. Which rule more accurately resembles, and therefore, guides us to an answer? As I said before, I believe that if you have another (single) action that exactly duplicates the rule (aside from the action type of course), that has got to be the most similar rule. Comparing Quicken Spell to Prone Attack is no where as close a fit as Stand Up from Prone and Prone Attack. IMO, YMMV, et al.Caliban said:
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Moderator's Notes:
Folks, knock off the snark. You are not here to prove your point; you are here to discuss possible interpretations of the rules, offering support for your interpretation. You are not hear to mock other people, either. If you can't discuss the rules in a civil, respectful manner, we do not want you in this forum.
Daniel
Folks, knock off the snark. You are not here to prove your point; you are here to discuss possible interpretations of the rules, offering support for your interpretation. You are not hear to mock other people, either. If you can't discuss the rules in a civil, respectful manner, we do not want you in this forum.
Daniel
atom crash
First Post
My opinion, for all it's worth (not much, but there you go):
Back to the original question first:
If you are casting a spell that requires a standard action and provokes AoOs, I'd allow you to instead use a full-round action to cast that spell, no problem, but it would still provoke. By the same token, if I were to allow a character to stand up as a full-round action (expressed if you like as prone-to-kneeling then kneeling-to-standing), it would still provoke an AoO. It requires one type of action, you wanted to spend more time doing it, fine by me, but you didn't use any rules that explicity removed the bit about provoking.
Because even if you wanted to go from prone to sitting, sitting to kneeling, kneeling to squatting, then squatting to standing, the net result is that you stood up from a prone position, which "requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunities."
If you wanted to drive from Orlando to Miami on the Florida Turnpike, you have to pay the toll. If you wanted to instead drive from Orlando to West Palm Beach and then from West Palm Beach to Miami, you'd still have to pay the toll, because you've still been driving on the Florida Turnpike. You don't escape the toll by dividing up the journey into smaller steps. If anything, you risk more tolls if you get off the toll road then get back on for the next step of the journey.
Now, my interpretation of the Prone Attack feat is that the bit about standing from prone provokes an AoO because the feat changes what type of action, but it doesn't explicitly remove the bit about provoking.
Unfortunately, there is some inconsistency in the rules about how feats are written in regard to changing an action type to a free action. Some explicitly state that the free action doesn't provoke, some expelicitly state that the free action still provokes, Prone Attack does neither. In general, unless it's otherwise specified, I'd look back at the original type of action and whether or not it provokes. In this case, standing from prone provokes, so unless the feat tells me otherwise it still provokes even if it's now a free action.
I don't hold that it's "clear to me" or "explicitly stated in the rules," but it's the way I interpret it. It would be nice if the feat actually stated either way, in order to maintain some consistency across feats that turn some action into a free action, but that may be too much to hope for.
Back to the original question first:
If you are casting a spell that requires a standard action and provokes AoOs, I'd allow you to instead use a full-round action to cast that spell, no problem, but it would still provoke. By the same token, if I were to allow a character to stand up as a full-round action (expressed if you like as prone-to-kneeling then kneeling-to-standing), it would still provoke an AoO. It requires one type of action, you wanted to spend more time doing it, fine by me, but you didn't use any rules that explicity removed the bit about provoking.
Because even if you wanted to go from prone to sitting, sitting to kneeling, kneeling to squatting, then squatting to standing, the net result is that you stood up from a prone position, which "requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunities."
If you wanted to drive from Orlando to Miami on the Florida Turnpike, you have to pay the toll. If you wanted to instead drive from Orlando to West Palm Beach and then from West Palm Beach to Miami, you'd still have to pay the toll, because you've still been driving on the Florida Turnpike. You don't escape the toll by dividing up the journey into smaller steps. If anything, you risk more tolls if you get off the toll road then get back on for the next step of the journey.
Now, my interpretation of the Prone Attack feat is that the bit about standing from prone provokes an AoO because the feat changes what type of action, but it doesn't explicitly remove the bit about provoking.
Unfortunately, there is some inconsistency in the rules about how feats are written in regard to changing an action type to a free action. Some explicitly state that the free action doesn't provoke, some expelicitly state that the free action still provokes, Prone Attack does neither. In general, unless it's otherwise specified, I'd look back at the original type of action and whether or not it provokes. In this case, standing from prone provokes, so unless the feat tells me otherwise it still provokes even if it's now a free action.
I don't hold that it's "clear to me" or "explicitly stated in the rules," but it's the way I interpret it. It would be nice if the feat actually stated either way, in order to maintain some consistency across feats that turn some action into a free action, but that may be too much to hope for.
Chairman7w
First Post
Sigh. This is the reason that games get bogged down. People try too often to do things to "get around" the rules. The rules state:
and that's that. If I'm the DM and some yahoo tries coming up with scenarios and reasons and justification for back-dooring some rule, I just say, "Nope, can't be done. What's your intention?" and move on. I believe a smooth-moving game is much more important.
RigaMortus2
First Post
Chairman7w said:
And that's fine if you want to go from Prone to Standing all in one motion (action).
What if you want to go from Prone to Kneeling? What type of action is that? Does it provoke an AoO?
What if you want to go from Kneeling to Standing? What type of action is that? Does it provoke an AoO?
atom crash
First Post
The rules give no indication about these options. Here's how I would rule them:
Prone to Kneeling: What type of action is that? Move Action
Does it provoke an AoO? Yes
Kneeling to Standing? What type of action is that? Move Action or a free action combined with a regular move
Does it provoke an AoO? Yes or As part of your move, which is still yes
Just a little bit from what martial arts training I've had, a tumble to regain your feet without provoking an attack of opportunity would not be the rock back and hop to your feet, it would be a roll backwards over one shoulder.
This would most easily be represented by a tumble 5' backwards (crawl backwards 5' tumble at full speed, no AoO DC 15+10) then stand from prone for 2 move actions.
As a side note: Is there anything preventing a prone creature from taking a 5 ft step back and then stand from prone? It says a creature with a speed of 5 or less can't take a 5-ft step, but it doesn't mention a prone character (though a prone character effectively has a speed of 5).
This would most easily be represented by a tumble 5' backwards (crawl backwards 5' tumble at full speed, no AoO DC 15+10) then stand from prone for 2 move actions.
As a side note: Is there anything preventing a prone creature from taking a 5 ft step back and then stand from prone? It says a creature with a speed of 5 or less can't take a 5-ft step, but it doesn't mention a prone character (though a prone character effectively has a speed of 5).
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