Stargate SG-1 + D20 Modern.

[takyris]

Well, for everyone that wanted it to be d20 Modern, there's probably someone that is happy that it was Spycraft.

Very true.

I didn't get d20 Modern at first, because to me, it looked way too much like D&D. But then I was convinced that perhaps it wasn't, and because I was interesting in d20 Future, I just bought it. But now that I sit down and read it, it looks like I was originally right. It's not D&D, but they tried their best to make it compatible with D&D, which really nerfed things, IMHO. For instance, everyone is bad at combat except one base class and one advanced class.

No. Three classes are average at combat. Two classes are bad at combat. One class is good at combat. d20 Modern does not assume that BAB=Level is the norm. It's assumed that an "average" hero will probably have a BAB of around three-fourths of their level.

You can't use the yardstick of D&D to determine whether or not d20 characters are weak. Yes, d20 Modern characters will generally have a lower BAB and fewer hit points (although their saves, if they multiclass, are close), but this doesn't make them weak. This makes them weaker than D&D classes, yes, but in a d20 Modern game, you're not fighting rogues and clerics. You're fighting other d20 Modern people.

Why? Presumably because the other classes needed more skill points, but giving them would have made them out of balance for D&D characters. (For instance, the Soldier and Gunslinger. Both are worse with guns than a Martial Artist, because the former have "average" BAB progressions, while the MA has the best. And the MA is probably built on a "Strong" Hero, so would have a +20 BAB at 20th level, while a Fast or Tough /Gunslinger/Soldier would only have +14 at 20th level. That's a huge difference. Almost 50%).

No. A martial artist has a higher BAB, but d20 Modern has such a plethora of feats and, more importantly, chances to get feats, that simply looking at the BAB is not a good way to measure somebody's power.

If you tried to max out a Strong/MA as a gun-specialist, you'd have a high BAB, sure, but you wouldn't have nearly as many bonus feats specific to guns as you would if you went with Fast/Gunslinger. The Fast/Gunslinger will blow the Strong/MA out of the water in a gunfight, simply because while the Strong/MA can go "Yeah, I hit you slightly more often! 2d6!", the Fast/Gunslinger says, "Yeah, hm, sucks to be me, I hit you a little less often... oh, but I'll be Double-Tapping and using Point Blank Shot, so I do a whole mess more damage." Also, your Strong guy's talents don't add anything to his gun power ("Haha, improved melee smash!"), but your Fast guy gets defensive talents that help a bunch, and the Gunslinger gets all kinds of talents.

I'm not explaining this very well, and this isn't exactly the thread for it, but seriously -- try it out. You can build a decent Strong/MA gun-user, but at the same level, you can build a much better gun-user with Fast levels and the Gunslinger or Soldier class. (My player's Fast4/Soldier3 is a high holy terror in the game -- it's good that the game is mostly investigative, because he's basically a one-shot-killer when it comes to combat -- 3d8+2 when double-tapping with his Desert Eagle.)

And for instance, it would probably make sense for characters to get more skills, because of the modern day educational system. But nope, they are pretty much the exact same as D&D classes, with the 1 extra point for humans factored in. Spycraft, OTOH, does do this. The Spycraft Soldier, which is essentially the Fighter, gets 2 more skill points than the Fighter did, presumably for the reason I mentioned.

And if your d20 Modern characters were facing the exact same challenges and fighting the exact same bad guys as your Spycraft characters, this would be a valid point. But they aren't, so this isn't. It's a different system with a different intent. Choose the game that goes with the intent you want.

 

[C. Baize]

What really blows is on AEG's website they have the below listed

SKU #2200
**********SRP $50.00*************
488 pages, full-color, hardbound.
Available now

And that is how much I paid for the book!!!!!! and it is now available for close to half! GRRR

Oh well, I paid 50 for it and I still think it is worth it. C. Baize does that tell you anything.

THAT is certainly a compelling argument for the worth of the book as a resource.

You can't use the yardstick of D&D to determine whether or not d20 characters are weak. Yes, d20 Modern characters will generally have a lower BAB and fewer hit points (although their saves, if they multiclass, are close), but this doesn't make them weak. This makes them weaker than D&D classes, yes, but in a d20 Modern game, you're not fighting rogues and clerics. You're fighting other d20 Modern people.

Also, don't underestimate the value of the Defense Bonuses.

Yes, and I will give a couple reasons

Page 6-133 Goes over a ton of Stargate information, Series. Which Goa'uld are alive which SG-1 has killed

Page 82. a know world chart, I didn't even remember that P3X-774 was the home world of the Nox...

Page 432 and after has tons of charts for terrain, weather, and environmental everything you are going to need to create new worlds.

Page 465 How about a High level Jack O'Neill? or maybe you need a low level? Well if either of those is not right for you check out the mid level...

I really like this book and I think it is a great addition to my collection.

Also a compelling argument.
Is AEG paying you, yet? They should be.

 

[Invictikore]

Also a compelling argument.
Is AEG paying you, yet? They should be.

If I like a product I'll say so... "Boodlines: 12 to Midnight", "The Tomb of Horrors: Necromancer Games". and if I really dislike it I am willing to say so also "Sword & Sorcery: Creature Collection". But no one has offered me money either way..... YET! Hint Hint!

 

[Ronin84]

Good luck with the conversion, last year when this appeared i could not be at GenCon but two of my group was, they got it on Thursday and next day air dropped it to me so that on Friday I could read it while watching my 1 day old son in the hospital.

I love the book, you will need to convert a ton of stuff over to the modern set, but that should not be impossible. Over on the AEG board we determined pretty quick that the NPC stats for SG-1 were horrible.

As has already been said, for resource material in a printed form, you cannot beat it. The system lords book is also very good. If you want material on the system lords.

Have fun, i am waiting for future to see how that looks, and i might just join u in the conversion.

 

[kerakus]

So... here's what I'm considering...

I love Stargate. The shows... the movie... I just plain dig the setting and story. For gaming, I'm a D20 Modern convert.
My quandary: Stargate SG-1 RPG is based on Spycraft, which is based on standard D20 SRD.

My thought: Take the Stargate SG-1 book (haven't bought it, yet), and dropping the classes, using the D20 Modern classes and mechanics, basically using Stargate SG-1 as a D20 resource book for the Races/Equipment/Stargate mechanics.

My question: Will it work this way? I don't want to use the half actions, or other Spycraft mechanics, just the Stargate SG-1 races/equipment and such.

Anyone done this, yet?

I have been contemplating the exact same thing. In fact, I've already started, despite the fact that I currently don't own either D20 Modern or Stargate SG1 RPG. At the moment, I'm not doing any of the rules oriented stuff, just using a lot of background material for my D&D campaign. I managed to find an Egyptian God that SG1 hadn't mentioned as a Gou'ald yet and...well, it's a long story, if you're interested I'll spill but I don't want to hijack this thread with my campaign. Suffice to say, that converting Stargate to D20 Modern is high on my list of things to do once I get the books.

Q

 

[C. Baize]

Hey, Q, glad to see you chime in!

Feel free to expound, please.


By the way, folks.... Q, here, pretty much introduced me to 3E... I had purchased the books, but he was the first person I gamed under with the D20 Rules.

 

[kerakus]

Hey, Q, glad to see you chime in!

Feel free to expound, please.


By the way, folks.... Q, here, pretty much introduced me to 3E... I had purchased the books, but he was the first person I gamed under with the D20 Rules.

Oh sure, banish my anonymity why don't ya.

Anyway, the background material for Stargate lends itself well to all sorts of interesting plots and plot devices. Part of the "fluff" for D20 Modern and in particular Urban Arcana is "Shadow" creatures that are essentially D&D critters. Now, in Manual of the Planes, it mentions that the Shadow Plane can be used to access alternate Prime Material Planes....I'm pretty sure the designers made that whole connection intentionally. What does this have to do with Stargate you ask? Well, IMC, when the Ancients left Earth, they had access to magic and they sealed off the planet from that energy source rather than let it fall into the hands of the Gou'ald. Just recently, SG1 stumbled onto a device that allowed them to see across dimensional boundaries (the episode with the bugs flying around and through things in season 6). That device was taken to Area 51 where further tests were done. Something went wrong with the device and the dimensional barrier the Ancients had set up to keep magic out was taken down prematurely. Magical creatures, from my D&D campaign world, started filtering into the D20 Modern/Stargate world, via a process called the Shadowfade. Back in the time when the Gou'ald ruled Earth, Aten, a lesser sun god in Egyptian mythology, sought to take down the system lords and become essentially all powerful. He succeeded briefly, but was brought down by his consort, Neferti, also known as Ne'erti and a few others who had escaped his grasp. They used a special device that has since been lost to banish him through the Stargate to "the other side of Shadow"....the D&D world. Aten aspired to godhood here as well and founded a great empire, but he grew too arrogant and started a purge of the followers of the true deities. He was struck down and his symbiote was forced to travel from host to host to survive, eventually winding up in the Underdark, where it bonded with a Mind Flayer. The Mind Flayer's will was too strong for him to dominate so they formed more of a partnership....and that is the main bad guy of my D&D campaign.

Like I said, long story.

Q

 

[DM_Matt]

Nice! I likes charts... mmmmm ... yesss... precioussss chartsessss.
And Teal'C with a 9 Cha? What? He was First Prime... A leader of MANY Jaffa...
Okay... looks like I'll be changing some stats, too.


Right on. Though, almost certainly I'll end up using the Blood and Guts requisition rules.

Its been a while, but IIRC Teal'c already has higher stats than the rest and is always a level ahead. IIRC he has 2 18s and no one else even has 1. IIRC Carter even only had a 17 int.

 

[C. Baize]

Right on, Q...

You guys may not have realized it, at the time... But remember the Medusa and the Dwarven lackeys?
They were all Goa'Uld, with the Medusa being the leader. There was a sarcophagus in those tunnels, as well. Heheh.

 

[Gerzel]

So... here's what I'm considering...

I love Stargate. The shows... the movie... I just plain dig the setting and story. For gaming, I'm a D20 Modern convert.
My quandary: Stargate SG-1 RPG is based on Spycraft, which is based on standard D20 SRD.

My thought: Take the Stargate SG-1 book (haven't bought it, yet), and dropping the classes, using the D20 Modern classes and mechanics, basically using Stargate SG-1 as a D20 resource book for the Races/Equipment/Stargate mechanics.

My question: Will it work this way? I don't want to use the half actions, or other Spycraft mechanics, just the Stargate SG-1 races/equipment and such.

Anyone done this, yet?

I'd recomend giving the strait spycraft version a try. Though there is no reason you couldn't modify the d20 mod stuff to work with it.

Gerzel