Level Up (A5E) State of the Archetypes

[xiphumor]

I hope 1/3rd casters are fine, because once the MoAR volumes conclude, all of the non-caster classes will have at least one.

Oh I think they’re fine in general. And, for example, I’m not worried about the Ecclesiarch, which has to invest in one of its non-core stats and wait until level 3 to use spellcasting. But the Savant is structured in such a way that already makes INT it’s most valuable stat, and it the spellcasting feature would come earlier than level 3.

 

[RangerWickett]

Question I’ve been mulling over: is a Savant 1/3 caster a bad idea? Specifically, I’ve been taking a look at my Arcana-focused Savant idea and wondering whether it should have some spellcasting.

If it does have spellcasting, my notion is that such Savants usually consider themselves Wizards, but spend more time with each spell and have a narrower focus, allowing them to rapidly create rare spells, making them mildly Sorcerer-like in the process. (Adjacent question: would such Savants have spellbooks or be known casters?)

If it shouldn’t, then the design focuses on someone who knows as much as a wizard does but keeps a distance from spellcasting, perhaps because they’re magically impotent, a fanatical mage hunter with moral reservations about magic, or just doesn’t like getting their hands dirty.

The problem is that if Savants are going to be a 1/3 caster, they’re going to be INT-based, which is already their primary ability score. In addition, they would have to get spellcasting at level 1 or 2, as they have no third-level archetype feature. I’m worried that such an archetype would be too strong, and potentially even introduce a dangerous multiclass dip for wizards.

Thoughts?

I have a rough idea for a savant psychic, starting at about the power level of Spock doing a mind meld at touch range, but then ramping up. But it would not have spells per se.

 

[xiphumor]

I have a rough idea for a savant psychic, starting at about the power level of Spock doing a mind meld at touch range, but then ramping up. But it would not have spells per se.

Your call of course, but my inclination would be to wait for VRC to come out so we can see what the Psion looks like.

 

[RangerWickett]

Your call of course, but my inclination would be to wait for VRC to come out so we can see what the Psion looks like.

I've got a very different conception, focused on mindscapes rather than 'spells.'

 

[xiphumor]

I've got a very different conception, focused on mindscapes rather than 'spells.'

Care to elaborate?

 

[RangerWickett]

Care to elaborate?

You know when Professor X goes into someone's head and walks around, or with Eleven sees the inner thoughts of Max in season 4 of Stranger Things, or when Leonardo DiCaprio goes into dreams in Inception?

They're not firing off 'powers' from afar. It's more like their mind is grappling with another mind, the way opponents might grapple in physical combat.

I could show you the system I've worked up of you're interested.

 

[xiphumor]

You know when Professor X goes into someone's head and walks around, or with Eleven sees the inner thoughts of Max in season 4 of Stranger Things, or when Leonardo DiCaprio goes into dreams in Inception?

They're not firing off 'powers' from afar. It's more like their mind is grappling with another mind, the way opponents might grapple in physical combat.

I could show you the system I've worked up of you're interested.

Sure! DM me.

 

[timespike]

The new fighter and adept archetypes in Thematic Toolkit: Scrapper are available.

 

[xiphumor]

The new fighter and adept archetypes in Thematic Toolkit: Scrapper are available.

 

[Pedantic]

Purple Martin is really doing work here, they've got as much coverage as core!

 

[timespike]

My eventual goal is to have so many A5E-specific options that nobody feels obligated to use WotC ones any more.

Clarification: note the word "obligated;" there will always be folks that want to run some treasured favorite archetype from a WotC work, and that's fine. I just want there to be sufficient A5E-specific options where folks don't feel like they need to use O5E ones to give their players enough choices.

 

[Faolyn]

My eventual goal is to have so many A5E-specific options that nobody feels obligated to use WotC ones any more.

You're getting there. Based on the games I'm currently running or playing in, there's still room for a psi knight fighter (I wish @Steampunkette would publish that psi tradition), a sun soul adept, a glamour bard, and a chronurgy/graviturgy wizard.

On a personal note, I'd like to see the other elemental wizards (why should pyromancers get all the fun?) and a "small gods" warlock or druid--one who gains powers from nature or ancestor spirits or deities like kami, loa, or kachina. And I'm sure some people would like to see a proper four elements/bender.

 

[timespike]

Some of those concepts are already in spreadhseets, outlines, etc., but that's a good list. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Pedantic]

@xiphumor I don't suppose you'd be interested in doing a similar chart (or maybe just a grind) for synergy feats pairings? That feels like another area potentially ripe for expansion/evening out. From Faolyn's document above, I've put the appropriate classes for all the 3rd party stuff and core feats below:

Spoiler: Synergy Feats

Ranger/Wizard Arcane Scout → Scholar of Arcane Paths → World Strider [TT03]
Herald/Sorcerer Arcane Sentinel → Mystic Warden → Cosmic Guardian [TT01]
Fighter/Herald Bronze Protector → Steel Protector → Adamantine Protector [GPG05]
Adept/Rogue Dimensional Step → Teleporting Combatant → Crawling Teleporter [GPG05]
Cleric/Warlock Heterodox Devotee → Heretic → Cultist [TT02]
Druid/Marshal Horned Lord → Commander of the Wilds → Nature’s General [MoAR01]
Berserker/Fighter Hulking → Tremendously Hulking → Impossibly Hulking [GPG05]
Adept/Sorcerey Iceborn → Frozen Steps → Subzero Soul [TT02]
Ranger/Rogue Stalker → WhisperFoot → Deadly Shadow [TT03]
Bard/Druid Storyteller → Tale Spinner → World Speaker [TT05]
Rogue/Herald Truth Seeker → Breaker of Secrets → Scourge of Lies [MoAR03]
Rogue/Wizard Underworld Mage → Magical Trickster → Arcane Thief [TT03]
Berserker/Marshal Warleader → Voice of Wrath → Havoc Crier [TT04]
Marshal/Wizard Talented Telepath → Mental Mastery → Boundless Mind [TT05]

Any Spellcaster Apprentice Lich → Journeyman Lich → True Lich [MoAR03]
Any Embalmed → Mummified → Mummy Lord [MoAR03]
Any Newblood → Vampire Spawn → Vampire Lord [Core]
Any Revenant → True Revenant [Core]

Fighter/Wizard Bladechanter → Whirling Incantor → Eldritch Whirlwind Master [Core]
Fighter/Wizard Eldritch Archer → Arrow Enchanter → Eldritch Volley Master [Core]
Cleric/Sorcerer Mystic Arcanist → Pure Arcanist → Arcanum Master [Core]
Adept/Rogue Nightstalker → Subtly Skilled → Night Master [Core]
Bard/Herald Proclaimer → Divine Orator → Harbinger of Things to Come [Core]
Rogue/Warlock Shadowdancer → Shadowmancer → Shadow Assassin [Core]
Berserker/Druid Untamed → Living Stampede → Wild Rioter [Core]
Adept/Ranger (Can swap Artificer for either) Vigilante → Equipped for Justice → A Symbol That Strikes Fear [Core]

 

[xiphumor]

Don’t forget the two Berserker/Rogues in H&H2: Feats, and the transformational feats there!

 

[xiphumor]

 

[Steampunkette]

You're getting there. Based on the games I'm currently running or playing in, there's still room for a psi knight fighter (I wish @Steampunkette would publish that psi tradition), a sun soul adept, a glamour bard, and a chronurgy/graviturgy wizard.

On a personal note, I'd like to see the other elemental wizards (why should pyromancers get all the fun?) and a "small gods" warlock or druid--one who gains powers from nature or ancestor spirits or deities like kami, loa, or kachina. And I'm sure some people would like to see a proper four elements/bender.

Soon... soooooon....

 

[xiphumor]

It occurs to me that I misentered data on the chart. I’m going to redo it.

 

[Faolyn]

I updated my googledoc to reflect the new heritages, cultures, backgrounds, and archetypes from the Dungeon Delver's Guide. I'll update for spells in a bit. (There's one archetype for each of the 13 classes.)

Now I have to go and read them in-depth. I was kind of surprised to see Grimlock as a culture and not a heritage. It's pretty interesting, though.

 

[timespike]

I updated my googledoc to reflect the new heritages, cultures, backgrounds, and archetypes from the Dungeon Delver's Guide. I'll update for spells in a bit. (There's one archetype for each of the 13 classes.)

Now I have to go and read them in-depth. I was kind of surprised to see Grimlock as a culture and not a heritage. It's pretty interesting, though.

That went through some iteration. There was a heritage in there at various points, but as it turned out, it works best as a culture. I'm just glad they're in there as a playable option, tbh. I lobbied hard for that and I'm so happy it made the final cut.