Stats for Tolkien Elves

[Klaus]

I agree that would be best, but I was hoping for something that would be reasonably playable at 2nd level.

If you want an elf playable at 2nd level, you don't want a Tolkien elf. Best advice I can give is to make an aasimar, or make an gray elf with the celestial template (LA+1, iirc).

 

[Felix]

Ok...question, would you consider this broken if I made two "True Elven" races with adjustments like...

<snip>

I know it's "powerful"...would you consider it "too" powerful? Basically, is it broken? For the most part, I find people unwilling to play +1 LA races, you're giving up a lot, so my leaning is that this is powerful, but not broken.

You're giving the races a total +8 in stats, Darkvision, and Timelessness. Shall that be all, or will you maintain their weapon proficiencies, their Spot/Listen bonuses, and their free Search checks? Will High Elves also not suffer from the -2 CON?

You already note that these adjustments make these races stronger than most +1 LA races. That is most certainly the case. It is also stronger for the fact that there is no racial hit-die weight to carry; Gnolls for example have admirable stat modifications, but they also have two pesky Humanoid HD that waters down the effect of their stat's powers.

Cedric, if you're looking for a way to model Tolkien elves, simply give them the Deathless (or Timeless) ability and call it quits. It won't change the mechancis of things like you previously noted, and nor will it mean that everyone will suddenly be an Elf. And why not? With those benefits, I can't imagine not taking advantage of them: +4 Dex, +2 Str and Con? That's HUGE.

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Keep in mind that every elf we see in the books and the movies is thousands of years old and a hero, a king, or a prince. From Feanor to Galadriel, Elrond and Legolas, each and every one of them was old and noble blooded. I can't think of how they could have done any of the things they did in the books without levels, and I can see them doing those things with levels and without the stat adjustments you favor.

Make your Tolkien elves the flavor of Tolkien elves. Give them an exclusivity and an aloofness. Make the standard DnD elf race unavailalbe as a PC race for the first few levels until they are unlocked; this will ensure that any elf PC is fairly robust, already having a few HD under his belt. I recommend 5 or 6; enough for the elf to start doing some neat things, but not so many that you won't ever see them in the party. It will prevent the speculation on 1HD elves who, while being the fairest, fleetest, and wisest, and experienced for a thousand years, will get killed by the first goblin that crits them.

EDIT:
Klaus' idea of slapping the celestial template on the standard Elf may help, though I'm not sure that acid and electricity resistance was shown in the books. I say do it with flavor.

 

[Cedric]

Good advice, I think I'm just trying to bandaid too many issues with one solution.

 

[Ruslanchik]

So can we agree that elves aren't inherently wiser or more skillful than other races, they just gain knowledge through their long lifespans. Elves, though they live forever, are a bit frail, meaning that they are not as physically tough as humans or dwarves and cannot sustain more injury in battle and survive. Therefore, simply adding class levels to simulate age would not be appropiate. Why not create templates that give skill points, feats, ability points, etc. just as taking class levels would but don't add hit points (or maybe add 2 hp/level). With -2 STR, +2 DEX, and +2 CHA, just two character levels without hp (or with low hp) would b pretty powerful but also allow room for growth. I would give this LA +3, I guess.

Just an idea.

 

[irdeggman]

So can we agree that elves aren't inherently wiser or more skillful than other races, they just gain knowledge through their long lifespans.

I hope this isn't a generic statement but one that is applying to the Tolkein elves.

Otherwise dwarves (which also have a relatively long life span) should be gaining Intelligence too.

 

[Ruslanchik]

I hope this isn't a generic statement but one that is applying to the Tolkein elves.

Otherwise dwarves (which also have a relatively long life span) should be gaining Intelligence too.

Tolkein's elves only.

 

[Cedric]

The more I think about it...the more I am fairly certain that Tolkien's Elves are just naturally better. Yes, some of it can be explained by experience and knowledge.

But it's not like Tolkien envisioned them gaining character levels and feats.

 

[Felix]

Elves, though they live forever, are a bit frail, meaning that they are not as physically tough as humans or dwarves and cannot sustain more injury in battle and survive.

I don't think this is communicated in Tolkien's books. After all, the elves fought mighty battles against Melkor and his hordes, and while eventually succumbing, I think they were hardly fragile.

The problem with templating is that what we don't see in Tolkien's works is an example of an average elf. We don't know that every elf is particularly strong or weak, if they can produce magical musical effects by virtue of their birth, or if they must work to gain these abilities. What we do know is that they are immune to aging, don't sleep, have their fates tied to the world unlike Men, and that they are succeptable to dying from ennui.

What class levels produce is the ability for differing skill sets between elves, as well as powerful heroes for the bards to sing of. Restricting access to elves until 5th or 6th level models the quality that the PCs won't really know what 1st level elves are like, much like the reader's experience with Tolkien's elves. It preserves for elves the possibility that every elf is signifigantly powerful (compared to the average human), but it does not make it a necessity the way templates do. And it is also not hard to argue that a template or a LA makes the race more frail due to the loss of HD.

 

[Wish]

Arcanis Elorii, especially the Ardakene, might be a good fit, mechanically (they really don't match Tolkein elves at all in backstory).

Ardakene get +2 Wis and Cha, -2 Con and Str. Immortality (don't die of old age, basically), and immunity to disease. They lose the spot and listen bonuses, and auto-search, and immunity to ghoul paralysis.

 

[TheNovaLord]

Not gonna work without bigger LA adjustement or like other games systems do (SPI dragonquests for example were elves are well statted but everyting costs 1.4x as much expereince point wise, MERPwhere they have again great stats but some restrictions.) I think in Deciphers LOTR elves got loads of goodness and few drawbacks.

One thing forgoten above is the that 'the ghosts of men hold no fear for them'. This is handled well in DQ and Dec LOTR. Sort of in D&D with ghoul paralysis. Maybe elves are immune to the effects of undead that can be created by 'create lesser undead' spell or whatever its called.

JohnD