Stats Have Suffered From Inflation

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Don't forget Method V, from 1E Unearthed Arcana.

Step 1. You're human.
Step 2. Choose a class - say, fighter.
Step 3. Roll 9d6-drop-6 for Str, 8d6-drop-5 for Con, 7d6-drop-4... down to 3d6 for Int.

Actually, that would be 3d6 for Com. That method only works with the UA-added Comeliness score added as a 7th stat.

 

[ptolemy18]

I remember playing D&D in the 80's and the players freaking out cause the brick of the party had a 17 Str. Now it seems that players are used to 20, 21 or even 22 Str and a fighter type with a 17 Str is merely laughed at for being weak. Is this just my group or is it in other places too?

Stats aren't exactly inflated. This is just a result of the system being reconfigured so that 18 isn't the limit. After all, it wasn't until 3rd edition that monsters had statistics, so of course there are going to be monsters running around with STR in the 20-30 range. And if monsters can do it, players can do it (with magic and stuff).

Bear in mind that an 18(00) STR in 1st edition D&D gave you +6 damage, which is equivalent to a 22-23 STR in 3.0/3.5 edition.

Jason

 

[Silverleaf]

The default method in AD&D was 3d6 in order. 4d6-drop-lowest was probably the most common method though, at least in 2e.

In the 1e DMG, Gygax presents four different methods (I-IV) that generate better scores than 3d6-in-order, and he highly recommends using them. Method I is 4d6, drop lowest, and arrange as desired.
Also, I've never seen anyone play AD&D (1e or 2e) with straight-up 3d6-in-order. The modifer scales just aren't suited for that. Average scores yield really poor choices (average INT or WIS magic-user or clerics get penalized), whereas in Basic D&D there is no such penalty and a PC with six 9's is perfectly playable.

 

[Quasqueton]

The stats in the Rogue's Gallery have no relation to what Gary Gygax's characters actually had. They are the inventions of Brian Blume (and others). Gary's never actually allowed any of us in on the actual stats of his PCs.

Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure, written by Gary's co-DM, Rob Kuntz is what I based my observation on. I asked Gary directly, in one of the "Ask Gary Gygax" threads if this was accurate, and he said it was. (Do note, though, that the Rogue's Gallery numbers are identical except for one that is off by a few points.) So my observation stands.

Quasqueton

 

[TheAuldGrump]

3e DEMANDS high stats to be effective at higher levels. A 20th level fighter needs a 30 strength, while his AD&D counterpart can get by quite well with a 12.

*CHOKE!* There is a term for this that rhymes with Full Wit... In my highest level 3e D&D game, where the player's characters ended up at between 18th and 19th level the highest stat was a halfling rogue with a 24 Dex. The dwarf fighter had a 20 Str and Con, not including buffs from the wizard, who had a 19 Int. Not a 30 in sight. Maybe they are required in your game, but none that I have played in, run, or even witnessed. The major change is that you don't need wishes anymore, you get better abilities with experience. 3.x is also the first time I ever bothered running a game past 10th level.

The Auld Grump

 

[Crothian]

No, bu it's the company that produces the game that sets the standards. Since WOTC published that module, most people just picking it up have to assume that is the standard and that anything with stats below that (at the same character level) is simply a low magic game.

Standards are not set in moduiles and add ons. Standards ar eset by the people actually playing the game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, that would be 3d6 for Com.

Fair enough - I'm away from my books

From memory, Thieves rolled 8d6 for Com, didn't they?

-Hyp.

 

[Crothian]

Fair enough - I'm away from my books

From memory, Thieves rolled 8d6 for Com, didn't they?

-Hyp.

good memory

 

[JRRNeiklot]

*CHOKE!* There is a term for this that rhymes with Full Wit... In my highest level 3e D&D game, where the player's characters ended up at between 18th and 19th level the highest stat was a halfling rogue with a 24 Dex. The dwarf fighter had a 20 Str and Con, not including buffs from the wizard, who had a 19 Int. Not a 30 in sight. Maybe they are required in your game, but none that I have played in, run, or even witnessed. The major change is that you don't need wishes anymore, you get better abilities with experience. 3.x is also the first time I ever bothered running a game past 10th level.

The Auld Grump

That's fine and dandy, for your game. (And for mine, if I ever ran one that high). WOTC sets a different standard, though.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Standards are not set in moduiles and add ons. Standards ar eset by the people actually playing the game.

Sure, at each table. But there is a standard level of magic that each character is supposed to have. It's in the DMG. By those standards it's quite easy to have stats in the 30s. Your game is not required to have those kind of stats by any means, but any game that doesn't is below the norm. Not that that's a bad thing.