Stealing mounts?

[Jon_Dahl]

So what happens if you try to steal a mount? Obviously with horses it's easy, because there have been lot of horse-thieves in the history so it seems that if you have any notion how to ride a horse, you can always jump on ones back and ride away like you owned it for years.

But what about warhorses? You can steal heavy warhorse just like that? And I'm curious to know what happens if you try to steal some exotic mount with animal intelligence, like dire weasel, hippogriff, war-rhino etc. etc.

This question came to me when I realized that my players may get a chance to steal hippogriff in 3.5... So I'd appreciate opinions from 3.5 point of view, but I think this question is non-edition specific.

In my opinion this is a question of animal aggressiveness and general hostility toward intruders. Horse is not that aggressive and also a herbivore. It really doesn't care who rides it, as long he/she does it right. Hippogriff on the other hand is a fairly aggressive carnivore and known man-eater, so without it's master it will attack/kill/eat anyone who touches it.

 

[El Mahdi]

...Horse is not that aggressive and also a herbivore. It really doesn't care who rides it, as long he/she does it right...

For a domesticated, non-war horse, this would probably be true (unless trained to only trust one person), but wild horses (especially herd leaders) and warhorses, are extremely aggresive. They will attack to kill(biting, striking with hooves, etc.), and they are very good at it. They are herbivores...but herbivores evolved to fight off predators like wolves. Wolves know better than to attack a strong, healthy stallion...as it's probably certain (eventual) death, even when attacking in numbers.

A War Horse is a trained horse, but not an entirely domesticated horse. They are in many ways, still a wild animal, and if not acustomed to the rider or the person attempting to handle it, will probably attack with the intent to kill. That's what Warhorses were selectively bred and chosen for - Aggresiveness.

 

[Merkuri]

I would say it entirely depends on the nature and training of the creature.

A fairly docile creature (most herbivores) with basic rider training will probably respond like your average riding horse. As long as they know the right commands anyone will be able to ride off with it. No checks needed to mount and ride. The biggest difficulty in stealing one of these will be dealing with guards or the owner.

But an aggressive creature that required a lot of training to make it accept a rider at all will probably attack any strangers trying to mount it. I would probably allow PCs a nature, handle animal, or similarly appropriate skill check to attempt to subdue the animal in lieu of fighting it. I might also probably come up with some sort of mini-system the character can use in battle instead of attacking the creature, like a grab/grapple attempt to forcefully mount the creature, and after repeated rounds of successfully maintaining the grab I might have the creature grudgingly accept the rider.

Such a mount would probably be unreliable until it was retrained, however. In battle I might even give the mount a saving throw (in 4e) at the beginning of each round to see whether it continues to obey the rider, and if the mount succeeds in the check it would spend its turn trying to throw the rider off. You do not want to be taking a stolen aggressive mount into battle right away.

Warhorses or similarly trained mounts have been specifically trained to accept only one rider and to attack anyone else who gets too close or tries to mount. I'd treat these exactly like "aggressive" mounts above.

 

[Hussar]

Sounds reasonable to me. A serious Handle ANimals DC in any case.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Well, it's actually not that easy to steal horses.

And it's a very serious crime.

In the old west horse thieves were often hunted down and killed.

In a fantasy campaign there could be special magical protections that one would have to bypass.

Also, classes that have magical animal empathy would go a long wayh to taming a wild animal. So would certain spells.

 

[David Howery]

as someone who grew up around horses, I can tell you that even the most docile of them can be spooked rather easily... especially if a stranger just tries to grab their reins. And if your character is covered with blood or is a barbarian wearing the pelt of a wild leopard, that horse is going to panic and likely kick the hell out of him when he gets close... for a stranger to get hold of a horse that doesn't belong to him, he basically has to approach slowly, talk low and steadily, stroke it's neck, keep his hands away from the eyes and ears (that tends to spook them)... basically, spend a minute or two approaching and calming the horse before trying to mount it...

 

[Umbran]

A War Horse is a trained horse, but not an entirely domesticated horse. They are in many ways, still a wild animal...

I don't believe that's accurate. In terms of animal behavior, non-docile does not mean "wild". Warhorses were bred to be aggressive and more brave than your typical workhorse, but as I understand their lineages, they were not by any means wild animals.

 

[El Mahdi]

I don't believe that's accurate. In terms of animal behavior, non-docile does not mean "wild". Warhorses were bred to be aggressive and more brave than your typical workhorse, but as I understand their lineages, they were not by any means wild animals.

Perhaps I didn't word that as well as I should have.

I don't mean to say that Warhorses were wild animals. I simply mean that in aggresiveness, Warhorses were closer to Wild Horses than more domesticated horses. Horses with heightened natural aggression, along with other qualities (speed, strength, ability to be trained, etc.), were bred in order to retain and enhance the natural aggressiveness of Wild Horses. I agree with you 100% that they were not wild animals. One could probably say with some accuracy, that Warhorses were something set apart from both Wild Horses and other domesticated horses (not another breed, as Warhorses weren't necessarily breed dependent, but definitely a different directed evolutionary path). I'm also speaking to true Warhorses, as opposed to just a horse trained to carry a rider in battle. One has simply been trained to follow specialized direction amidst the chaos of battle, the other is itself a naturally bred weapon that has also been trained to follow specialized direction.

I would think that unless the horse knew the prospective thief, and was used to them handling it (such as a squire), stealing a Warhorse would be a very dangerous proposition. One probably just as likely to end with either the thief or the horse (or both) severely injured (or worse).

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Don't forget the "Say Yes" design principle.

The last session of 4e I played in had an airship vs. airship combat.

Our opponents had a character riding some sort of dragonesque flying lizard. At some point during the battle the dragonrider was dismounted (I don't recall if by choice, it was a couple months ago). My swashbuckling character decided to have a go at stealing the mount, so I used my running leap (whatever the monk power is called) to make a crazy leap out into the air in order to steal it. I hoped to give the dragonrider a taste of his own medicine.

From that point on the best the GM would let me do was Intimidate vs. Will in order to make a move action with the dragonthing. Meanwhile every turn it turned it head around and kept stunning me.

I never got to do anything useful with it during the battle, although after the fighting I eventually landed it on my airship and the rest of the party beat it into submission (I think the goliath pinned it to the deck).

It wasn't the most enjoyable battle.

DS

 

[Dross]

I agree that it depends. The harder it is to train a mount the less likely is it to just accept any stranger riding them.

Having an intelligent mount allows the DM/PC to determine what happens. The more sneaky mounts would probably allow a rider on then run them into a branch or something. (It also brings to mind stealing a paladin's mount and riding it away, only to have the paly dismiss it at an in/appropriate time.)

Which can bring up another problem: party members trying to ride the mount. While the mount might not shy away or attack another party member after it got used to them, riding them could still be a problem.