D&D 5E Stealthy Spellcasting in 5e

[Aimian_Silverflash]

Say one of your players casts Charm Person/friends/whatever on the guard captain to get past the gate, or Detect Thoughts in a room full of people to try and find who the bad guy is. That sort of thing. You really can't let everyone know you're doing it, right? How would you guys determine if he gets noticed or not?

It's not addressed in 5e, at least nowhere I can find. I'm thinking it'd be a stealth check vs. either passive perception, or active perception if being directly monitored. But I wanted to see what everyone else was doing.

Side note: I'm a little disappointed they didn't address this anywhere in the 5e PHB...

 

[Syntallah]

I have the Spellcaster make an Arcana check [if only a Verbal component], or an Arcana check w/ Disadvantage [if a Somatic component is involved]. I have not had a spellcaster proficient in Stealth try this yet, but I would let them add their proficiency bonus to the Arcana check if they were.

This check is then contested by the Perception checks of the observers [passive or active as the situation dictates].

Note: the spell goes off as normal, the check is merely to simulate the 'doing-it-on-the-downlow' way of casting.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Casting a spell is conspicuous. If people can see or hear you, you're pretty much gonna get caught doing it - you're fumbling with components, making weird gestures, and uttering magical incantations that shape the fabric of reality, it's not something easily hidden.

That said, if someone can't see or hear you, you're golden. If you want to charm the guard captain, get him alone. If you want to read the room with Detect Thoughts, go "take a stroll outside," and come back in before the duration expires.

If someone wanted to try and cast a spell on the sly, as if they're doing nothing more usual than fixing their hair and muttering something under their breath, I'd probably (a) require a spellcasting focus of some sort to be in their hand (so they don't have to grab some bat guano from their pocket or whatever), (b) let them make a Charisma (Deception) check, opposed by the entire room's Insight and/or Arcana checks (making it more unlikely the fuller the room is). I might let a sorcerer with Subtle Spell have advantage on that check if they're spending the SP on it.

 

[Eejit]

Sorcerers with the Subtle Spell Metamagic are obviously the best at this.

I'd also allow a Sleight of Hands check to try and do Somatic components without others noticing.

 

[TreChriron]

IF you really want it, make an Ability or Skill check and let it happen. BUT. It's a potentially problematic ruling. It steals some of that niche from your sneaky types. It makes magic users more powerful.

Classes have niches where that class shines in particular moments. I personally wouldn't allow a Wizard or Sorcerer to pull off a stealth casting. Maybe the Arcane Trickster Rogue archetype (or whatever it's called...). The Wizard is going to have to come up with a creative way to mask the casting or cast it elsewhere. It's part of the price of magic and also forces the that player to be creative. Perhaps the Rogue could offer some advice or assistance in this nefarious plot?

 

[Paraxis]

For the most part it would be a Charisma(deception) check vs passive perception/insight by default in my game but would be open for other types of ability checks depending on how the player described their actions.

 

[Uller]

Ask theplayer what his PC is doing to make people not notice and use the appropriate skill check. Deception, sleight of hand, persuasion, stealth all seem like they might be useful.

 

[Aimian_Silverflash]

IF you really want it, make an Ability or Skill check and let it happen. BUT. It's a potentially problematic ruling. It steals some of that niche from your sneaky types. It makes magic users more powerful.

Classes have niches where that class shines in particular moments. I personally wouldn't allow a Wizard or Sorcerer to pull off a stealth casting. Maybe the Arcane Trickster Rogue archetype (or whatever it's called...). The Wizard is going to have to come up with a creative way to mask the casting or cast it elsewhere. It's part of the price of magic and also forces the that player to be creative. Perhaps the Rogue could offer some advice or assistance in this nefarious plot?

This particular situation was the group's Bard, who has very good deception rolls, stealth rolls, and even a pretty decent slight of hand roll. It seems like if anyone could get a spell cast without nearby people noticing, it'd be him.

It actually applies to a lot of different situations too. Say the same bard is spying (via stealth) on a group of kobolds in a forest. He casts Detect Thoughts (V, S, M) to see what the kobolds are thinking about. Does that automatically break his stealth?

Thanks everyone for the input. I love 5th edition, but there's a lot of really sticky situations like this one where they could have been a little more specific.

 

[TreChriron]

This particular situation was the group's Bard, who has very good deception rolls, stealth rolls, and even a pretty decent slight of hand roll. It seems like if anyone could get a spell cast without nearby people noticing, it'd be him.

It actually applies to a lot of different situations too. Say the same bard is spying (via stealth) on a group of kobolds in a forest. He casts Detect Thoughts (V, S, M) to see what the kobolds are thinking about. Does that automatically break his stealth?

Thanks everyone for the input. I love 5th edition, but there's a lot of really sticky situations like this one where they could have been a little more specific.

Awesome. So, he needs to incorporate his/her instrument or voice, yes? So, that would be brilliantly easier to just break into a story, song or performance. People do it all the time to catch the eye of someone they are interested in. No need for stealth in the classic sense. Just disguise the attempt as something else.

In the forest spying? I would not allow a stealth cast of such a spell. That spell is already a nice "easy" button, it doesn't need more beef sauce on it. Make the player come up with a creative way to cast detect thoughts without the Kobolds undesired attention. Maybe they know a good Kobold shanty? Attempts to call from the bushes and trick them that they are the Kobold deity here to tell them a "story of grave importance" while he waxes poetic about the evils of the pink giants, he reads their thoughts... In other words, MAKE. IT. AN. ADVENTURE!! No win buttons. Shenanigans or it's not a game.

 

[Aimian_Silverflash]

Awesome. So, he needs to incorporate his/her instrument or voice, yes? So, that would be brilliantly easier to just break into a story, song or performance. People do it all the time to catch the eye of someone they are interested in. No need for stealth in the classic sense. Just disguise the attempt as something else.

In the forest spying? I would not allow a stealth cast of such a spell. That spell is already a nice "easy" button, it doesn't need more beef sauce on it. Make the player come up with a creative way to cast detect thoughts without the Kobolds undesired attention. Maybe they know a good Kobold shanty? Attempts to call from the bushes and trick them that they are the Kobold deity here to tell them a "story of grave importance" while he waxes poetic about the evils of the pink giants, he reads their thoughts... In other words, MAKE. IT. AN. ADVENTURE!! No win buttons. Shenanigans or it's not a game.

LOL, well that's a pretty narrow interpretation of bardic magic, but that's definitely one way of playing it out I guess. I was more thinking about the possibility that he hums a very discrete tune to himself while lightly tapping a magical beat on his thigh. Musical instruments aren't specifically required for a bard to cast a spell. -In this edition, at least!