D&D 5E Stealthy Spellcasting in 5e

[TreChriron]

I wasn't trying to be narrow, simply pointing out that there are several ways to do it or rule on it. If you want this bard to have stealthy magic, then I would just incorporate a stealth roll. But I believe the lack of "magic stealth" rules was by design. It could be abusive. It does give your casters an edge with magic. However, I have played systems where the magic users are WILDLY more powerful than the muggles, so if you like the difference, then I say go with stealth (god). I love magic. So I tend to be accommodating when it comes to magic. However, I have been hyper-aware lately to be a fan of all the classes and roles in the game. So, I maybe overcompensating for that.

 

[keterys]

I've had a couple situations I've wanted to use a charm-ish type spell in a stealthy-ish manner or woven into the conversation I'm already having where my attempts to use it has prompted an immediate response something like "Okay, roll initiative, we'll see whether he swings at you before you get the spell off, since you're obviously doing something hostile"

So, yeah, I wouldn't mind finding some reasonable guidance from an official source. In the meantime, I figure I'll just avoid using spell slots for silly things like interaction when I can save them all for fireballs. That's clearly what the DMs are trying to tell me, right?

 

[Saeviomagy]

1. There's basically no flavour anywhere about exactly what somatic and verbal components consist of.
2. The crunch merely says that verbal components cannot be produced while gagged or silenced, and somatic components require free use of at least one hand, which can be the same hand that is manipulating material components.

Given that, I'd be happy to say that verbal components can be muttered under your breath and somatic components can be concealed behind your back, so spellcasting in a social situation or while trying to be stealthy is definitely doable. I would probably also say that there's going to be a social stigma involved with muttering under your breath and concealing your hands in polite society.

Additionally I would say that this will vary from spell to spell, casting accoutrement to casting accoutrement and from from caster to caster.

I would expect in most cases power words need to be shouted for instance, while suggestion is merely an inflection placed on the words that make up the suggestion itself, and could thus potentially be said in polite conversation without raising much notice.

I would expect that in most cases a holy symbol, wand, staff or other focus needs to be brandished, while components can be more subtle.

In my head a paladin of devotion casts zone of truth by reading out rights or by beseeching the powers that be to allow no deception within it's radius, an oath of vengeance paladin casts it with a dirty harry-style speech and an oath of the ancients paladin drops it in the middle of a potentially incriminating sentence with a muttered word, a smirk and a twinkle in their eye.

 

[Uller]

I wouldnt hold my breath for official guidance. How majic works is going to vary from group to group and even class to class. If the Arcane Trickster in our group said she wanted to secretly cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on someone while telling a group ofpeople some jokes I'd allow it with a performance vs insight check. If the wizard wanted to cast Phantasmal Killer on someone while remaining hidden in a crowd of bystanders I woild probably make that a bit tougher.

 

[steeldragons]

I have an innate class ability for my homebrew Illusionist class, Surreptitious Spell [EDIT: They get it at 4th level I think...maybe 3rd]. Completely stolen, mind you. I saw it in an OSR/clone though I couldn't for the life of me tell you which one.

Let's you cast your spell in full view on a successful Sleight of Hand roll (I guess that would translate as is to 5e). You're coughing/sneezing into your sleeve or rubbing your nose or simply conducting the somatic components inside your billowy sleeves or even just behind your back from view. For the whole "material component" thing...you slipped a hand into a pocket and, again "up your sleeve" and nothing really matters.

Now, you can not do this if you are being directly engaged. So, doing it while the Fighter is busy introducing folks or the bard/thief is regaling the duke with a tale or "What was that?! It just jumped out the window!" or some other distraction. In that last case, I would probably require a failed Int. save from the target or some such to actually look away.

Works most of the time. Not always. I could/might consider opening it up to, like, Bards and, in 5e, Arcane Tricksters for sure. Actual mages...mmmmm I'm thinking not unless they spent time/effort/resources on some Sleight of Hand/Stealth/Deception skill.

 

[KarinsDad]

I've had a couple situations I've wanted to use a charm-ish type spell in a stealthy-ish manner or woven into the conversation I'm already having where my attempts to use it has prompted an immediate response something like "Okay, roll initiative, we'll see whether he swings at you before you get the spell off, since you're obviously doing something hostile"

So, yeah, I wouldn't mind finding some reasonable guidance from an official source. In the meantime, I figure I'll just avoid using spell slots for silly things like interaction when I can save them all for fireballs. That's clearly what the DMs are trying to tell me, right?

I don't know about that, but the description of verbal and somatic components appear to indicate a level of forcefulness that precludes or at least hampers stealthy spellcasting.

Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren’t the source of the spell’s power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion.

Chanting, specific pitch and resonance, this all sounds at a minimum like singing to me, not mumbling. Not coughing sounds into one's hand. Chanting should be obvious to others, just like singing is.

Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.

Here the text uses the word "might", but it also uses the words "forceful" and "intricate". Has anyone tried to write something down on a sheet of paper behind their back and do it well? It's probably not easy.


A player might be able to convince me to let them try something like this, but the DC would be fairly high like 20 or maybe 15 + spell level in my game.

The historic intent of verbal and somatic components was that others could easily notice (some versions stated "in a strong voice" for verbal, etc.).

 

[Fanaelialae]

I'd allow a sorcerer using Subtle Spell to get away with casting a spell by default, unless there were material components in which case a check might be required depending on the circumstances. Since it negates the need for verbal or somatic components, without material components it would just look like he was concentrating, so I'd say someone would have be specifically on the look out in order to have a chance of noticing it.

For other casters, it's not as easy IMO. If the spell has verbal components, they'd need to be somewhere noisy and move away from anyone nearby to avoid being noticed. For somatic components, there would either need to be a distraction so that everyone looks elsewhere, or the caster would need to hide behind (or peek around) concealment to avoid being seen.

In the case of the kobolds, I'd say that unless the caster was hiding out of earshot, he'd have to sneak away, cast the spell, and then sneak back.

That said, I could see the possibility of a feat which allows casters to avoid being noticed when casting.

 

[SkidAce]

I look at it in a simlar fashion as actual hiding.

You can't just hide while under direct observation, you need concealment or obscurement etc.

Si, IF there is something that justifies you being able to cast unnoticed (say a crowded noisy bar, or the barbarian starts a fight) then I would allow you a stealth roll of some type.

 

[MoonSong]

IF you really want it, make an Ability or Skill check and let it happen. BUT. It's a potentially problematic ruling. It steals some of that niche from your sneaky types. It makes magic users more powerful.

Classes have niches where that class shines in particular moments. I personally wouldn't allow a Wizard or Sorcerer to pull off a stealth casting. Maybe the Arcane Trickster Rogue archetype (or whatever it's called...). The Wizard is going to have to come up with a creative way to mask the casting or cast it elsewhere. It's part of the price of magic and also forces the that player to be creative. Perhaps the Rogue could offer some advice or assistance in this nefarious plot?

Sorry, but casting unnoticed is the sorcerer niche, allowing any other caster -including arcane trickster rogues- to cast unnoticed with a skill check would detract from the already thin niche sorcerers struggle to keep. The wizards have already stolen too much of their stuff and taken away most of the stuff they shared, they have very few toys left to play with.

I'd allow a sorcerer using Subtle Spell to get away with casting a spell by default, unless there were material components in which case a check might be required depending on the circumstances. Since it negates the need for verbal or somatic components, without material components it would just look like he was concentrating, so I'd say someone would have be specifically on the look out in order to have a chance of noticing it.

Read again, subtle spell removes all components, not only verbal and somatic ones. The only unavoidable ones are the costly ones, but I don't think a sorcerer would ever learn one spell which burned money on each casting, it goes counter flavor. The only costly spell I would learn as sorcerer would be chromatic orb, but that one is not subtle at all.

 

[TreChriron]

Sorry, but casting unnoticed is the sorcerer niche, allowing any other caster -including arcane trickster rogues- to cast unnoticed with a skill check would detract from the already thin niche sorcerers struggle to keep. The wizards have already stolen too much of their stuff and taken away most of the stuff they shared, they have very few toys left to play with.
...

Huh. I will re-read those classes tonight. I don't recall stealth casting to be niche for Sorcerers, but it's not in my brain at the moment. I also didn't get the impression niche stuff was taken. This reads more like a personal preference and maybe even "beef" with 5e? When someone uses the phrase "they have very few toys to play with" I get the feeling your priorities with system are probably different than mine. These are not toys, they are the way the character engages with the world of make-believe (WOMB). Thus far, I have not seen an issue in play.