D&D General Steampunkette's Bard Redesign

[Corinnguard]

As is usual for you, @Steampunkette, that looks really great, and manages to be both mechanically interesting and significantly more evocative of the concept than what we've got. Nice job!

The mechanically interesting part of a homebrewer's work is when they do something the original designers of a given class have overlooked or didn't consider when designing the class. There is also the moment when a homebrewer has outdone the original designers. @Steampunkette when she came up with this version of the Bard class. Laser Llama and his take on the Ranger class.

 

[GuyBoy]

Huh... yeah? That reminds me of Monte Cook's old Bard Revamp in the 3e era. It was in "Book of Eldritch Might 2: Songs and Souls of Power".

Instead of having strict spells of different levels, you had notes, chords, and melodies. Notes could be cast as a move action, chords were standard actions, and melodies were full round action.

It also had a shifting use structure for their 'slots'. You could break down a chord into 5 notes, or a melody into 3 chords or 15 notes. Also worked in the inverse at the same rates.

The intention was to use multiple notes, or a chord and a note, in the same turn to be able to create songs of greater power than the individual note or chord. It also explicitly allowed multiple bards to contribute to the same song if they knew it, adding notes or chords to the overall melody.

It's just the name "Chords" that makes me think of it, but Monte Cook has always been a kind of inspirational "Take Risks" type of designer!

What's my deadline for bardsongs, there, Guy? Gotta have 'em ready for you!

Hi Rachel,
As per Rob’s answer, about 4-6 weeks, I guess. I love your design for this class.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

My biggest (?) critique of 5E is 1) full casters have too many spells and 2) too much overlap in their spell lists. Another way of phrasing this is that spellcasting takes up so much of their power budget that they all feel the same. So I really like the idea of 3/4 casters. Which is more-or-less what a warlock is when you add it all up.

For this bard in particular, I'd probably make a few changes.

First, I'd turn vicious mockery into a class feature. Basically, bardic inspiration is the boon, and vicious mockery is the bane. But they're basically two sides of the same coin.

Second, I'd turn the songs into spells. Which is basically what they are. I'd just make them exclusive to the bard. Of course, implied in this redesign is a total overhaul of the bard spell list.

Good stuff.

 

[TheSword]

I guess my question would be. If we are getting extra attack on the main class (which I’m fine with) what will the subclasses that used to grant that, get?

 

[humble minion]

I do like the concept of removing the emphasis on full spellcasting. Long overdue and gives a lot more design space to play with now that we're not having to balance against other full spellcasters.

For a REALLY comprehensive bard fix though - how about trying to make Performance skill checks matter in combat, for the class whose combat abilities we are increasingly centring around the performances?

 

[Steampunkette]

I guess my question would be. If we are getting extra attack on the main class (which I’m fine with) what will the subclasses that used to grant that, get?

I'd need to go through every bard subclass and add something in for those ones...

And also add in a new 9th level feature, as well.

 

[bedir than]

And also add in a new 9th level feature, as well.

I like the bit of extra space for a subclass feature. Those classes with only three don't feel as unique. Plus, having three in tier 1 and 2 is excellent

 

[Tessarael]

Here's my detailed constructive feedback. That it with a grain of salt, just my opinion.

Having seen D&D 2014 Bards in player, and having player a similar character myself with some adjustments to the class, I think they work okay as is with full spell casting progression.

Giving Bard extra attack is nice, but for most builds probably suboptimal vs. casting more effective higher level spells. You'd need to allow Bards to use their spell casting ability modifier for weapon attack/damage modifiers to make this more viable. Could work well at higher levels with good choice of spells from Magical Secrets.

More cantrips and more 1st level spells are nice, but not that important. The loss of higher level spell slots and the slowed spell casting progress is a big deal. Countersong is very situational - not useful in that many battles. Vicious Mockery as a bonus action is good, but seems like something that works better as an archetype in that regard., The problem would be if someone wants to play a Bard that doesn't make heavy use of Vicious Mockery.

The Words of Creation capstone doesn't fit well, though I know it is standard for the 5.5E Bard. I assume that by Power Word: Death you mean Power Word: Kill. You're giving them 9th level spells, even though they're a 3/4 spell casting progression class. Something like the A5E Viruoso capstone for Bard might make more sense.

 

[fuindordm]

Cool approach. I love the song/flourish idea.

Does a bard even need a pile of utility spells? I feel like in 5e it is treated like a requirement, and giving a class spells is sacrificing its potential to provide a unique experience in exchange for the illusion of balance.

I would say lean into the new mechanics. Bards can have magic that doesn't follow the same rules. Maybe they are the only class that can improvise spells. Maybe they have something like battlemaster maneuvers for social challenges. Maybe they need to know your true name to make their curses stick.

I'm tired of conservative class design in D&D. Get weirder!

 

[Li Shenron]

Nice design!