Level Up (A5E) Steel Protector feat - clarity and possible errata

[Anonymous3]

Steel Protector is a synergy feat that requires 3 levels in fighter and 3 levels in herald via Bronze Protector. Bronze Protector is ok as a synergy feat but otherwise not. Steel Protector has potential but it has two taxes: multiclassing and a prerequisite feat. Additionally by the time you can get it 4 fighter/4 herald split (you need two feats) it cannot be used because you don't have a 2nd level spell slot yet. This means you do not gain the benefit of the feat for a whole level (5th level Herald).

I am hoping this is just an oversight but it appears that Steel Protector is unusable until 9th level (and only if you take 5th level of Herald). Perhaps it was meant to say "1st-level or higher".

Am I missing something?

Steel Protector​

Synergy Feat
Prerequisite
Bronze Protector
The metallic power you’ve developed makes your skin into a thing of shining steel. Whenever you use your Metal Skin feature with a spell slot of 2nd-level or higher, your skin instead takes on a silvery sheen that gives you resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, and increases the damage of your unarmed strikes by 1d4, in addition to the benefits of Metal Skin.

 

[Verall]

IMO you wouldn’t go 4/4, extra attack is too important to wait. Pick your primary class and go straight to 5, if Herald is your primary maaaaaaybe throw fighter 1 in there somewhere.
After that get 4 levels in your off class, that puts you at 9 minimum anyway, you may dis agree and that’s fine but either way I think lvl 9 is way too late to be getting extra attack, it needs to go in earlier.

 

[Anonymous3]

IMO you wouldn’t go 4/4, extra attack is too important to wait. Pick your primary class and go straight to 5, if Herald is your primary maaaaaaybe throw fighter 1 in there somewhere.
After that get 4 levels in your off class, that puts you at 9 minimum anyway, you may dis agree and that’s fine but either way I think lvl 9 is way too late to be getting extra attack, it needs to go in earlier.

Thanks. I am not trying figure out a build. I presented 4/4 as the quickest way to get two feats (and meet the 3/3 requirement).
I am just trying to figure out if Steel Protector makes sense as a synergy feat option because it doesn't at the moment and, as I have learnt, there are things that I miss.

 

[lichmaster]

Thanks. I am not trying figure out a build. I presented 4/4 as the quickest way to get two feats (and meet the 3/3 requirement).
I am just trying to figure out if Steel Protector makes sense as a synergy feat option because it doesn't at the moment and, as I have learnt, there are things that I miss.

Well since you're multiclassing you could be using the multiclass spellcasting progression.
Heralds are half casters, so 4 levels count as 2 for spellcasting. Fighter normally doesn't count for spellcasting progression, however if you chose a subclass that gave you the spellcasting feature, it would count as 1/3rd per level, netting you 1 more level and giving you the ability to cast 2nd level spells.
However, I just realized with dismay that LU doesn't have a fighter equivalent subclass to the Eldritch Knight giving you spellcasting. So you'd have to go with o5e's EK to make this work right away, but besides that it will work, as you can use archetypes from o5e most seamlessly

Edit: Instead of the Eldritch Knight archetype LU has a much more interesting synergy feat chain. However this doesn't address the problem at hand. Frankly, I'd houserule that the spellcasting feature is irrelevant: primary caster levels count as 1, half casters as 1/2 and tertiary or non-casters as 1/3rd. If none of the classes has spellcasting, you can't cast spell regardless so this doesn't create any issue, but this frees you from having to choose that specific archetype with spellcasting in order to make the synergy feat work as soon as possible

 

[Anonymous3]

Well since you're multiclassing you could be using the multiclass spellcasting progression.
Heralds are half casters, so 4 levels count as 2 for spellcasting. Fighter normally doesn't count for spellcasting progression, however if you chose a subclass that gave you the spellcasting feature, it would count as 1/3rd per level, netting you 1 more level and giving you the ability to cast 2nd level spells.
However, I just realized with dismay that LU doesn't have a fighter equivalent subclass to the Eldritch Knight giving you spellcasting. So you'd have to go with o5e's EK to make this work right away, but besides that it will work, as you can use archetypes from o5e most seamlessly

Edit: Instead of the Eldritch Knight archetype LU has a much more interesting synergy feat chain. However this doesn't address the problem at hand. Frankly, I'd houserule that the spellcasting feature is irrelevant: primary caster levels count as 1, half casters as 1/2 and tertiary or non-casters as 1/3rd. If none of the classes has spellcasting, you can't cast spell regardless so this doesn't create any issue, but this frees you from having to choose that specific archetype with spellcasting in order to make the synergy feat work as soon as possible

I have read this over a few times and I wish I understood what you are trying to convey to me but alas I lack the mental faculties to do so - a confused citizen. So confused that I have translated this to mean that if I level up a 6th level Herald and MC into a fighter I lose spell progression (half of it!). That can't be right, can it?

Please help me out by reading this from the top.
Let me make sure we are all clear on what is being discussed:

Bronze Protector​

Synergy Feat
Prerequisite
3 levels in fighter, 3 levels in herald
...[Metal Skin. You can use a bonus action and expend a herald spell slot to cover your body...]

Steel Protector​

Synergy Feat
Prerequisite
Bronze Protector
... [Whenever you use your Metal Skin feature with a spell slot of 2nd-level or higher...]

1. To use these synergy feats requires two feats.
2. Classes attain their ASI at 4th and 8th level.
3. Bronze Protector specifically requires 3/3 split between Herald and Fighter.
4. However, to get Steel Protector as early as possible you would need to go 4Herald/4Fighter (not optimal progression but that is not important)
5. At 8th level you now have both feats. BUT, Steel Protector requires a 2nd level slot which you do not have as a 4th level Herald (8th level character).
6. You now require another level in Herald (5th level) to gain a 2nd level spell slot (at which stage you'd be 9th level total).

Have I got this totally wrong?

 

[Gnome Rager]

Well since you're multiclassing you could be using the multiclass spellcasting progression.
Heralds are half casters, so 4 levels count as 2 for spellcasting. Fighter normally doesn't count for spellcasting progression, however if you chose a subclass that gave you the spellcasting feature, it would count as 1/3rd per level, netting you 1 more level and giving you the ability to cast 2nd level spells.
However, I just realized with dismay that LU doesn't have a fighter equivalent subclass to the Eldritch Knight giving you spellcasting. So you'd have to go with o5e's EK to make this work right away, but besides that it will work, as you can use archetypes from o5e most seamlessly

Edit: Instead of the Eldritch Knight archetype LU has a much more interesting synergy feat chain. However this doesn't address the problem at hand. Frankly, I'd houserule that the spellcasting feature is irrelevant: primary caster levels count as 1, half casters as 1/2 and tertiary or non-casters as 1/3rd. If none of the classes has spellcasting, you can't cast spell regardless so this doesn't create any issue, but this frees you from having to choose that specific archetype with spellcasting in order to make the synergy feat work as soon as possible

I'm pretty sure @Timespike has a selection of tertiary casters which would take the place of the eldritch Knight if GPG or 3PP were allowed at the table. That would get you your caster level without using o5e material

 

[Gnome Rager]

I have read this over a few times and I wish I understood what you are trying to convey to me but alas I lack the mental faculties to do so - a confused citizen. So confused that I have translated this to mean that if I level up a 6th level Herald and MC into a fighter I lose spell progression (half of it!). That can't be right, can it?

Please help me out by reading this from the top.
Let me make sure we are all clear on what is being discussed:

1. To use these synergy feats requires two feats.
2. Classes attain their ASI at 4th and 8th level.
3. Bronze Protector specifically requires 3/3 split between Herald and Fighter.
4. However, to get Steel Protector as early as possible you would need to go 4Herald/4Fighter (not optimal progression but that is not important)
5. At 8th level you now have both feats. BUT, Steel Protector requires a 2nd level slot which you do not have as a 4th level Herald (8th level character).
6. You now require another level in Herald (5th level) to gain a 2nd level spell slot (at which stage you'd be 9th level total).

View attachment 380613

Have I got this totally wrong?

Your rundown works, @lichmaster is suggesting more efficient ways of getting the spell slots you want than herald 5. If you go with a casting subclass for your fighter you would have enough caster levels at 4/4 to have second level spell slots.

The edit suggests a complete change to the rules and would give those levels regardless of subclass. But it is a step away from the rules as they are written so might not be what you are looking for

 

[Anonymous3]

Thank you.
So, other than finding an external fix or a healthy offering of pizza to the overlord, would you agree that Steel Protector is unusable when a character can get it (8th level) and is an oversight?

 

[Gnome Rager]

I'm not sure I would say external fix, a5e is explicitly compatible with o5e which I have always taken as the reason why an eldritch knight or arcane trickster equivalent doesn't appear in the adventurers guide. The expectation is that an equivalent isn't needed just use the original, though your milage may vary on that.

I also think that in practice you are unlikely to be getting the feat at 8th level. Extra attack, as has already been mentioned, is too important to martial characters

 

[Verall]

Thank you.
So, other than finding an external fix or a healthy offering of pizza to the overlord, would you agree that Steel Protector is unusable when a character can get it (8th level) and is an oversight?

The consensus seems to be that,
1. You are correct, without 3rd party material the feat would not fully work at lvl 8 as you would not have a 2nd level slot
2. Not working at level 8 is a bit of a moot point as no one can really see why it would be taken at level 8