Level Up (A5E) Steel Protector feat - clarity and possible errata

[Toan Li]

Thank you.
So, other than finding an external fix or a healthy offering of pizza to the overlord, would you agree that Steel Protector is unusable when a character can get it (8th level) and is an oversight?

Answering your question, yes. Picking up the Steel Protector feat at Herald 4 / Fighter 4 (non-casting subclass) does make it unusable for Character level 8.

As for being an oversight, it feels like it is. The whole build is a little impractical, 9 is a late level to get extra attack. But also taking an o5e subclass on an a5e class is also less than ideal.

 

[Anonymous3]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the input and feedback.

I agree that martials should be chasing Extra Attack in terms of "adding value". However, I think if players want to be "creative" with their builds then they should and chasing a synergy chain can be just as fun as getting Extra attack. I personally really like the the feat-chains. I think it also helps players just decide "I am doing that" because it looks cool.
Unlocking Steel Protector only to find that get nothing would be a major bummer. I have had a look at most, not all, the feat chains and this is the first where you take a feat and the player get almost nothing (unarmed bonuses for a fighter herald seems... well odd).

Anyone here aware of how to submit stuff for "errata"?

 

[lichmaster]

At 8th level you now have both feats. BUT, Steel Protector requires a 2nd level slot which you do not have as a 4th level Herald (8th level character).
View attachment 380613

Have I got this totally wrong?

It's all correct, I was explaining a way for you to get that 2nd level spell slot with a 4/4 herald/fighter.
When you multiclass, your spellcasting progression follows the multiclass spellcasting progression if more than one class has the spellcasting feature

Multiclassing | Level Up

a5e.tools

If you used a fighter archetype with the spellcasting feature, you could be using that progression and get the same spellcasting prowess of a herald 5, but still with a 4/4 herald fighter

 

[lichmaster]

Answering your question, yes. Picking up the Steel Protector feat at Herald 4 / Fighter 4 (non-casting subclass) does make it unusable for Character level 8.

As for being an oversight, it feels like it is. The whole build is a little impractical, 9 is a late level to get extra attack. But also taking an o5e subclass on an a5e class is also less than ideal.

These things really make me thing that locking feats at specific class levels instead of character levels make the system so fiddly

 

[Timespike]

I'm pretty sure @Timespike has a selection of tertiary casters which would take the place of the eldritch Knight if GPG or 3PP were allowed at the table. That would get you your caster level without using o5e material

Yeah, I've done tertiary casters for the adept (Oaken fist, GPG and Forbidden Fist, MoAR), berserker (Fanatic, GPG and Wrathburner, MoAR) fighter (Arcane Showoff, MoAR), marshal (Arcane Officer, GPG, and Ecclesiarch, MoAR), ranger (Arcane Sniper, MMV1), and rogue (Sacred Agent and Dark Eye, MoAR).

For fighter specifically, I'll probably do some more eventually, but for now, I've just got the one fighter archetype in MoAR.

 

[JerichoPenumbra]

I've personally done a little bit of theory crafting for the Protector synergy feat line and it is one of those weird ones that based on existing material published at the time you couldn't actually get the most mileage going purely Herald/Fighter given Fighter didn't have any tertiary casting archetypes at the time. While I love synergy feats in general, I feel that in most cases they tend to lean more into one class rather than effectively blending them in most cases. The Protector line leans more into granting an alternative means for the Herald to boost themselves with magic, but is ultimately still focused on being a warrior type first and foremost. Honestly, I think it would have been better suited as an Archetype rather than a synergy feat line. Or even just a feat line without having it restricted to classes, just have the requirements be something like "have Extra Attack and be a Spellcaster"

To get the most flavor out of it, I figured Cleric/Herald/Fighter would actually be best to get the most potential milage out of it. Adding a tertiary caster archetype for Fighter while nice, would just add an extra spell level which at that point isn't especially needed at the end game of the build.

 

[Anonymous3]

I've personally done a little bit of theory crafting for the Protector synergy feat line and it is one of those weird ones that based on existing material published at the time you couldn't actually get the most mileage going purely Herald/Fighter given Fighter didn't have any tertiary casting archetypes at the time. While I love synergy feats in general, I feel that in most cases they tend to lean more into one class rather than effectively blending them in most cases. The Protector line leans more into granting an alternative means for the Herald to boost themselves with magic, but is ultimately still focused on being a warrior type first and foremost. Honestly, I think it would have been better suited as an Archetype rather than a synergy feat line. Or even just a feat line without having it restricted to classes, just have the requirements be something like "have Extra Attack and be a Spellcaster"

To get the most flavor out of it, I figured Cleric/Herald/Fighter would actually be best to get the most potential milage out of it. Adding a tertiary caster archetype for Fighter while nice, would just add an extra spell level which at that point isn't especially needed at the end game of the build.

I think the main attraction of Steel Protector is the resistance to BPS. That is a big deal.
Heralds get at most 3 2nd level spells slots and if used for Metal Skin that would be competing with Berserker Rage since both are long rest features if used this way.

To me, this means it would be better to take levels in Berserker/Fighter/Herald at the cost of a feat(s) and gain the same benefit and some extras.

 

[JerichoPenumbra]

I think the main attraction of Steel Protector is the resistance to BPS. That is a big deal.
Heralds get at most 3 2nd level spells slots and if used for Metal Skin that would be competing with Berserker Rage since both are long rest features if used this way.

To me, this means it would be better to take levels in Berserker/Fighter/Herald at the cost of a feat(s) and gain the same benefit and some extras.

Yes, but remember the Metal Skin feature from Bronze Protector reduces damage other than Electric and Psychic based on the level of the spell slot used before Resistances are applied. So the reduction of damage is in effect doubled thanks to Resistance (as long as it fits the conditions).

Then Adamantine Protector (the next feat in the line) provides potential bonus duration by making the effect last 10 minutes with a 4th level spell slot and 1 hour if you use a 5th level or higher slot. While under Metal Skin after taking Adamantine Protector and using at least a 3rd level spell slot you then gain proficiency with and use at-will the Hurl Ally maneuver while also being treated at one size larger for it. Hurl Ally is a bonus action toss an ally in reach 20ft to melee an enemy to attack them at the cost the ally's reaction. Said enemy then has to make a Dex save or that attack is a Critical Hit.

So if you want to focus on short term gains with smaller spell slots and only focus on getting BPS Resistances, then yeah, sure, take levels in Berserker for the build (or just be a pure Berserker for that matter). But go the way I suggested, you can have a way to have the BPS Resistances for multiple hours instead of multiple minutes, and be a battle platform to chuck your allies into potentially doing crits every round. Doesn't have to be Cleric (again just suggested it for flavor) but it works with any full caster.

Understand that for such a build, while you can play as a typical battle caster with some martial might, it would be more suited to playing as a defender/controller role using your spell slots to fuel greater martial might.

 

[lichmaster]

Then Adamantine Protector (the next feat in the line) provides potential bonus duration by making the effect last 10 minutes with a 4th level spell slot and 1 hour if you use a 5th level or higher slot. While under Metal Skin after taking Adamantine Protector and using at least a 3rd level spell slot you then gain proficiency with and use at-will the Hurl Ally maneuver while also being treated at one size larger for it. Hurl Ally is a bonus action toss an ally in reach 20ft to melee an enemy to attack them at the cost the ally's reaction. Said enemy then has to make a Dex save or that attack is a Critical Hit.

More than Adamantine Protector it should be called Humanoid Catapult!

 

[Anonymous3]

Yes, but remember the Metal Skin feature from Bronze Protector reduces damage other than Electric and Psychic based on the level of the spell slot used before Resistances are applied. So the reduction of damage is in effect doubled thanks to Resistance (as long as it fits the conditions).

I read this features as reducing the damage before resistance is calculated : So I use a level 1 spell slot and gain 1 damage reduction. I get hit with 12 fire damage. I have resistance to fire, yay! I then take 12-1=11 and then halve that = 5.5 rounded up to 6 damage.
What am I missing here?

Then Adamantine Protector (the next feat in the line) provides potential bonus duration by making the effect last 10 minutes with a 4th level spell slot and 1 hour if you use a 5th level or higher slot. While under Metal Skin after taking Adamantine Protector and using at least a 3rd level spell slot you then gain proficiency with and use at-will the Hurl Ally maneuver while also being treated at one size larger for it. Hurl Ally is a bonus action toss an ally in reach 20ft to melee an enemy to attack them at the cost the ally's reaction. Said enemy then has to make a Dex save or that attack is a Critical Hit.

I hear you. Adamantine Protector provides a CM that is worthy of a feat itself... if that is what you are looking for. A 4th level spell slot on a Herald is a massive resource. I would rather be using that to upcast Bless or something else than use it to extend Metal Skin to 10minutes - mileage varies but I think its situational.

So if you want to focus on short term gains with smaller spell slots and only focus on getting BPS Resistances, then yeah, sure, take levels in Berserker for the build (or just be a pure Berserker for that matter). But go the way I suggested, you can have a way to have the BPS Resistances for multiple hours instead of multiple minutes, and be a battle platform to chuck your allies into potentially doing crits every round. Doesn't have to be Cleric (again just suggested it for flavor) but it works with any full caster.

Level 17 Herald nets you 1 5th level spell slot so you get 1 hour benefit per long rest.

Understand that for such a build, while you can play as a typical battle caster with some martial might, it would be more suited to playing as a defender/controller role using your spell slots to fuel greater martial might.

This heroic image is cool. You gave up a lot for that including a 20th Herald feature.

I think the feat chain is cool but could do with some revision as I have outlined previously and was the purpose of the thread.