Stephen Schubert's Latest Post-- anybody buy it?

[Maggan]

Now, the truth of what WotC is doing, is that NOW they want to CHARGE US money to get these neat little preview

Yep. And I can afford it, so I'll get it just for fun.

/M

 

[BASHMAN]

I just read your post and it made me want to cry. "OMG, WotC wants money for the products they spend money to develop! bla, bla, bla, insert whiney statement about evil corporate politics bla, bla, bla I want 4th Ed. for free now, because otherwise i'm forced to buy their advertisement in december!"

Overreact much? I was just saying that it was dishonest to say that the REASON they were withholding information was that it wasn't ready since we already know they intend to make us buy the preview products. The core classes and races HAVE been set already-- but that information is withheld because it is coming out in a book in December.

I have no hate of 4th ed-- I'm very much in the "wait and see" camp. I did however, much prefer the way they handled the release of 3e-- by giving frequent updates & info for free on a weekly basis it seemed. Despite some people's claims to the contrary, "giving away" the information did not stop people from buying the 3e books-- they wanted them even more!

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I was just saying that it was dishonest to say that the REASON they were withholding information was that it wasn't ready since we already know they intend to make us buy the preview products. The core classes and races HAVE been set already-- but that information is withheld because it is coming out in a book in December.

It is dishonest to imply that you will never know that information unless you buy those books. Once those books are in stores the precious info you want will be all over teh intrawebs . . . for free.

 

[Alzrius]

It seems like no one can say they dislike a company's policies without ten people suddenly jumping up and defending the rights of corporations - that because they exist to make money, anything they do to maximize profits is therefore justified. If it's less convenient for the consumer, but makes more money for the company, then that's the good and right way of things, and you don't have any right at all to complain about it - if you do, you're naively thinking a company "owes" you something.

Even if that is realistic, I find it strange that fellow consumers, who lose out just as much as I do in the face of company interests, seem more interested in attacking their fellows who complain, instead of sympathizing about the greater loss of personal income for something you want.

 

[Celebrim]

I get really tired of hearing criticism of a company because they are trying to make money. Even if you don't like it, if it is what the company needs to do to stay profitable and its ethical, then you have to concede that its the right thing for them to do. I don't think you can make the argument that anything WotC is doing is unethical, so I don't think you can in fairness attack WotC as a company. Of course they have thier own interests ahead of the interests of an individual customer. No body who loves games profits from gaming companies going out of business, and the PnP games are having a tough go of it right now.

I buy the justification, even if it causes me to seriously doubt their claims in other places. I'm fairly sure that they have not firmed up the mechanics to the point that they are even previewable. Where that worries me is the various claims about how well the new system works.

 

[BASHMAN]

It seems like no one can say they dislike a company's policies without ten people suddenly jumping up and defending the rights of corporations - that because they exist to make money, anything they do to maximize profits is therefore justified. If it's less convenient for the consumer, but makes more money for the company, then that's the good and right way of things, and you don't have any right at all to complain about it - if you do, you're naively thinking a company "owes" you something.

Similar logic was used by the press and government to defend companies who used police to murder, frame, and imprison strikers 70 years ago. Obviously, this is not comparable to that-- but there does seem to be a natural instinct in some people to defend the status quo, even if it sucks.

Even if that is realistic, I find it strange that fellow consumers, who lose out just as much as I do in the face of company interests, seem more interested in attacking their fellows who complain, instead of sympathizing about the greater loss of personal income for something you want.

QFT. From the sound of it, the people you describe have drank deep the WotC Koolaid, and rabidly attack anyone who doesn't want to swallow it.

 

[Maggan]

instead of sympathizing about the greater loss of personal income for something you want.

Could you expand on this, please? I have a hard time seeing how this is related to WotC making design and marketing decisions for 4e?

Or is it a general statement that I'm not getting? The "loss" of personal income is negligible to me when it comes to getting 4e, and IMO anyone who feels that they are jeapordising their personal economy because they want to own the latest D&D, and place the blame for that on WotC, should re-assess their spending priorities somewhat. There are plenty of cheaper or even free alternative rules sets out there.

I might have misunderstood your point though.

/M

 

[BASHMAN]

Could you expand on this, please? I have a hard time seeing how this is related to WotC making design and marketing decisions for 4e?

Or is it a general statement that I'm not getting? The "loss" of personal income is negligible to me when it comes to getting 4e, and IMO anyone who feels that they are jeapordising their personal economy because they want to own the latest D&D, and place the blame for that on WotC, should re-assess their spending priorities somewhat. There are plenty of cheaper or even free alternative rules sets out there.

I might have misunderstood your point though.

/M

My understanding was that he found it odd that other players pounce on people who complain about $ for previews of 4th Ed rather than be mad at wizards for charging for them...

 

[Maggan]

My understanding was that he found it odd that other players pounce on people who complain about $ for previews of 4th Ed rather than be mad at wizards for charging for them...

That could be it. My perspective is that WotC can charge what they like for what they offer.

I've been subjected to far worse offers during my life, concerning sums that are far larger than 15 bucks, or whatever those previews cost. My ultimate superhero-power is that I get to decide if it's a good deal to me or not, and then I get to decide if I want to spend the money or not.

And if people don't want to spend the money, just wait a couple of months and you'll get all the previews, reviews and what not for free when the books are released.

And I have a hard time seeing that the information in the preview books will be a secret to those that don't buy the books until the end of time. About 10 minutes before they hit the counters someone will spill everything about the book. And it will be discussed to death on these forums, so I don't think there is any risk that anyonen really need to feel left out.

The preview information will be available online to everyone, without any more "loss of personal income" than getting online. Sure it won't be packaged in a nice book, but then again it's not the book that's the thing for those who just want the information.

So for me personally, I won't invest energy into being mad at WotC. I just don't see the point.

/M

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It seems like no one can say they dislike a company's policies without ten people suddenly jumping up and defending the rights of corporations - that because they exist to make money, anything they do to maximize profits is therefore justified. If it's less convenient for the consumer, but makes more money for the company, then that's the good and right way of things, and you don't have any right at all to complain about it - if you do, you're naively thinking a company "owes" you something.

Even if that is realistic, I find it strange that fellow consumers, who lose out just as much as I do in the face of company interests, seem more interested in attacking their fellows who complain, instead of sympathizing about the greater loss of personal income for something you want.

This would be a better argument if WotC were doing something objectionable, and the "they're just trying to make money" argument were some kind of smokescreen. My impession is that the people who are using that argument are usually the people who post some complaint about 4E, and preface it with "now, I know WotC is a business, and that they need to make money, but..."