Stephen Schubert's Latest Post-- anybody buy it?

[Lonely Tylenol]

Could you expand on this, please? I have a hard time seeing how this is related to WotC making design and marketing decisions for 4e?

Or is it a general statement that I'm not getting? The "loss" of personal income is negligible to me when it comes to getting 4e, and IMO anyone who feels that they are jeapordising their personal economy because they want to own the latest D&D, and place the blame for that on WotC, should re-assess their spending priorities somewhat. There are plenty of cheaper or even free alternative rules sets out there.

I might have misunderstood your point though.

/M

I think it's also worth mentioning again that these preview books are a completely optional purchase. I would love to know what's in them, but I'm not going to buy them. I'll survive...somehow...

I expect that it'll be less than 24 hours before I know everything they contain, since the people with the books will show up here and blab about them.

 

[JeffB]

Most of the really good scoops were from anonymous playtesters as I recall.

Yup. Alot of stuff was "leaked" here (ahh..those were fun times ..anyone remember the combat example/AOO scoop with the little diagram Eric did? )

And once in a while we'd hear a bit from Ryan on the general scope of things or a tidbit from Skip or Monte, I dont remember Jonathan posting much at all, if at all..he was pretty absent from the boards, IIRC.

Funny thing is, I remember for the most part there was much less negativity towards 3E compared to nowadays and 4E. (Can't say I'm a big help either on the negativity and 4E, I apologize if I'm ruining anyones fun with my sporadic "rolleyes" posts)

 

[Rel]

I think it's also worth mentioning again that these preview books are a completely optional purchase.

I think it's also worth mentioning that 4e is a completely optional purchase. That idea seems to get lost in these discussions a lot (not that I'm accusing you of this, Dr. A).

The bit about corporations doing whatever makes them the most money is true but the customer is implicitly part of that arrangement. By opting NOT to buy a product that you don't like from a business whose business practices you don't approve of, you help control both the price of the product and those business practices.

 

[Lackhand]

On negativity: Ah, to be young again, and uncynical.

We've been talking to each other and networking and listening to *every gripe ever* (instead of just what was in Dragon) and *every awesome story ever* (ditto) for eight years.

I blame the internet.

edit: Really, it's because 3.x was so good that we're complaining. There are two default beliefs, that there's nowhere to go but down, or that the authors are capable of standing on the shoulders of giants. And hearing stuff leak is able to influence that, but not a lot.

Are there many people that have switched sides, from initial announcement to today? I know I haven't.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I think it's also worth mentioning that 4e is a completely optional purchase. That idea seems to get lost in these discussions a lot (not that I'm accusing you of this, Dr. A).

Undecided 3.5 DM here, myself, although the proposed changes do target things that, for the most part, I've wanted changed. Of course, 4E being optional, if I decide I don't like it, I can just keep playing 3.5, since I've got enough material to last me through two more editions. And everyone else is in the same boat as me. We can all keep playing 3.5, if we don't like 4E, although I'll miss the official support. That argues, in my opinion, on behalf of WotC making fairly major changes to the game, promoting it in the way they see fit, and selling what they want to sell. We already have a perfectly good game, so they're not really doing us any wrong by taking things in a different direction. They did 3.5 to death, and now they're doing something that specifically is not 3.5. It's something else entirely, and so it doesn't have to be an upgrade or patch or incremental change to 3.5.

The bit about corporations doing whatever makes them the most money is true but the customer is implicitly part of that arrangement. By opting NOT to buy a product that you don't like from a business whose business practices you don't approve of, you help control both the price of the product and those business practices.

Well, sure. If nobody likes 4E or WotC's practices, they won't buy the game. If lots of people do, they'll sell fantastically. I don't suppose that people moaning about how much they personally dislike these things makes much of a difference either way.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

On negativity: Ah, to be young again, and uncynical.

We've been talking to each other and networking and listening to *every gripe ever* (instead of just what was in Dragon) and *every awesome story ever* (ditto) for eight years.

I blame the internet.

edit: Really, it's because 3.x was so good that we're complaining. There are two default beliefs, that there's nowhere to go but down, or that the authors are capable of standing on the shoulders of giants. And hearing stuff leak is able to influence that, but not a lot.

Are there many people that have switched sides, from initial announcement to today? I know I haven't.

Well, there's also my initial position, which was "noooooo! Too soon! I just bought these!"

Which is still my position, although the previews are making me think I'm going to end up running both 3.5 and 4E campaigns in the future, just because 4E looks darn good to me so far.

 

[Odhanan]

All I can tell you is that I certainly will not pay for "previews". *shrug*

 

[Fifth Element]

Similar logic was used by the press and government to defend companies who used police to murder, frame, and imprison strikers 70 years ago. Obviously, this is not comparable to that--

...which is why you're comparing them?

If you don't like the idea of paying for previews, don't. Some people will, and they are the target market for the paid previews.

Just wait for the actual game to be released, and be thankful that the money WotC made on the paid previews from other people means the price of the books you do buy are very slightly lower.

 

[BASHMAN]

Just wait for the actual game to be released, and be thankful that the money WotC made on the paid previews from other people means the price of the books you do buy are very slightly lower.

If wizards lowered the price on this because of the previews I'd be truly astonished. The $20 PHB pricetag for 3E was a great marketing tool, but I doubt they'll use it this time around. I am guessing the 4e PHB will be $30-40.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Just wait for the actual game to be released, and be thankful that the money WotC made on the paid previews from other people means the price of the books you do buy are very slightly lower.

That WotC are charging for the two preview books (which provide much more than just previews) are primarily to create income during the months between the 4e announcement and the 4e release.