Stinky Feats
- Thread starter RedTonic
- Start date
RedTonic
First Post
I was also thinking of things like Toughness, which seems like a good idea if you're new, but is really just a trap to punish people who don't have a firm grasp on what's actually good in 3.5.
One change I've tried in the past with Toughness is having it grant +2 HP at each level after first (so, if you took it at 1st level, by 20th level, you would have accumulated +41 HP total). Unfortunately, those games didn't survive long enough to discern if that was a horrible idea or not...
One change I've tried in the past with Toughness is having it grant +2 HP at each level after first (so, if you took it at 1st level, by 20th level, you would have accumulated +41 HP total). Unfortunately, those games didn't survive long enough to discern if that was a horrible idea or not...
kitcik
Adventurer
The weapon focus stuff gives melee dudes a boost in a tree they may well take anyway.
The toughness boost is just a further lure into the trap of a still crappy feat, IMHO. If anything, nerf Toughness to discourage it or go whole hog (maybe let it double your Con bonus every level).
RedTonic
First Post
The Con bonus would be nice, except for PCs who don't have a Con modifier/have a negative modifier because their score is 10 or less. In that case, it may just become a trap for middling-Con martial types who think it will be useful, but in the end, is most beneficial to characters with high Con modifiers. Does that make sense?
Would doubling the bonus of Focus and Specialization really be enough to dust the suck off of those feats so that they become attractive for their own sakes? In my case, I plan on minimizing the number of +n weapons in my game, and have been considering how to give PCs inherent bonuses that are both fair and useful. (Right now, it's not a big deal; they've just made it to level 2.) I have seen topics where people suggest the use of inherent bonuses, but no concrete examples of how to go about it. I thought modifying those feats might be a useful way of doing so.
Originally I thought perhaps just having Weapon Focus add a scaling to hit bonus, and then Weapon Specialization add a scaling damage bonus...
kitcik
Adventurer
I think the Weapon Focus stuff would make those feats decent. No Law Devotion, but not every feat should be Law Devotion.
On the Con/Toughness thing, low Con characters should not be using feats on extra HP. Extra HP feats are for tanks. Tanks have high Con. Low Con characters should be taking archery feats or metamagic feats or Craft, etc. Anyway, that was my thinking. And an 18 Con guy getting +4 HP per level might actually make this feat worth it. That's 80 HP potential (or more, if Con gets raised).
But, if you have low Con players that might take it anyway, you will need to do something else (give it a 14 Con prereq? HA!).
On the Con/Toughness thing, low Con characters should not be using feats on extra HP. Extra HP feats are for tanks. Tanks have high Con. Low Con characters should be taking archery feats or metamagic feats or Craft, etc. Anyway, that was my thinking. And an 18 Con guy getting +4 HP per level might actually make this feat worth it. That's 80 HP potential (or more, if Con gets raised).
But, if you have low Con players that might take it anyway, you will need to do something else (give it a 14 Con prereq? HA!).
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
I'd just have Focus and Specialization automatically double at the levels the Greater versions would become available, and strike them from the game.
Replacing Toughness with Improved Toughness is a fine solution, too. I think all of the skill feats should double at ECL 10, like they do in PF, too.
I also allow synergy between Weapon Focus and Quickdraw. If you have the latter and are using a weapon for which you have Focus, you can also sheathe the weapon as a free action w/o provoking AoOs.
Finally, I think Weapon Aptitude's ability to reassign weapon feats to a new weapon daily that a Warblade gets should be available to Fighters as well, if not everyone.
Replacing Toughness with Improved Toughness is a fine solution, too. I think all of the skill feats should double at ECL 10, like they do in PF, too.
I also allow synergy between Weapon Focus and Quickdraw. If you have the latter and are using a weapon for which you have Focus, you can also sheathe the weapon as a free action w/o provoking AoOs.
Finally, I think Weapon Aptitude's ability to reassign weapon feats to a new weapon daily that a Warblade gets should be available to Fighters as well, if not everyone.
HoboGod
First Post
Not every feat is meant to be taken by players. Players don't need the Run feat, they can buy horses. Horses need the run feat. Players don't need Toughness, their hit points aren't so pathetic that +3 makes a difference. Animals in the wild need Toughness. Players don't need Mobility, there are better feats to chose from than wasting two feats to move out of a threatened square with a +4 bonus to AC. NPC pickpockets would need that all the time and wouldn't have use for the better feats.
And quite honestly, when class features and wondrous items regularly grant sub-par bonus feats, does it make sense to upgrade every sub-par feat to super-awesome level?
And quite honestly, when class features and wondrous items regularly grant sub-par bonus feats, does it make sense to upgrade every sub-par feat to super-awesome level?
I have to agree with a lot of this. While some feats are for flavor, some feats maybe just to enable other non-PC things in the game using the paradigm of feats.
I also don't get the constant need to boost everything because it seems weak from some perspective. Consider that maybe Toughness was for characters who are traditionally not tough e.g. spell casters, to be considered so for their class. Consider that a tank with an 18 con is already tough.
Remember, sometimes Feat requirements are there to suck up feats choices. Now whether that improves or worsens playability is an open question.
