Stone Cold Dead

[Istar]

Petrification and Clerics "Stream of Life".

Okay the Cleric is operating SOL and loosing 5 HP per turn then is Petrified.

Now it gets a bit complicated.

Its a no action to allocate the healing but he has no actions petrified so we assume he cant do this.'

Then it gets weird, he knows he will be taken over by an elemental that will soon attack the party.

So decided not to save and to take the 5 HP damage, but we then kill creature anyway.

He is unaware of surroundings and takes 5 HP ongoing until he is down.

Is this just plain suicide or is there other stuff at play.

Will he loose the 5 HP loss when he is unconscious or will it end, does he still take it when petrified ?

 

[Riastlin]

Without having looked up all the rules for Petrified, etc. My gut reaction would be to rule that being turned to stone cancels all effects of SOL, including the ongoing 5. He's stone and (iirc) in need of a ritual to be turned back to a fleshy. That seems like sufficient "punishment" to me.

He may be aware of his surrounding, but he's still unable to take actions. I would argue that "choosing" to continue to take the damage is still an action, albeit a free or non-action.

 

[LightPhoenix]

You're considered Unconscious as part of being Petrified. You can't take actions, considered helpless, yadda yadda. Also, Petrified confers Resist 20 all, so while the ongoing damage is still in effect, the resistance negates it.

To the second point of the player choosing not to save - I don't think that's a choice. Per the Compendium, emphasis mine:

End of Turn: At the end of your turn, you make a saving throw against each effect on you that a save can end.

It doesn't say you may make a saving throw, indicating a choice. It happens, regardless of what the player wants.

 

[twilsemail]

[MENTION=115]LightPhoenix[/MENTION]: The power specifies that a PC doesn't need to save against the damage if they don't want to.

He will continue losing HP until the player decides to roll a saving throw and gets a total of 10+. I think that's answering your question Istart. Not sure.

 

[LightPhoenix]

@LightPhoenix: The power specifies that a PC doesn't need to save against the damage if they don't want to.

He will continue losing HP until the player decides to roll a saving throw and gets a total of 10+. I think that's answering your question Istart. Not sure.

That's what I get for not paying close enough attention. RAW, twilsemail is correct.

Personally, I don't like that interpretation at all. If the character is unconscious, they shouldn't be able to make choices. There's nothing that says they can't, but that doesn't sit well with me.

However, that said, the image of the cleric petrified and giving off healing energy is pretty cool.

 

[DracoSuave]

You're considered Unconscious as part of being Petrified. You can't take actions, considered helpless, yadda yadda. Also, Petrified confers Resist 20 all, so while the ongoing damage is still in effect, the resistance negates it.

The power explicitly states the damage cannot be reduced.

You can take the damage, heal others, as a petrified cleric. That's all you can do at that point.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Personally, I don't like that interpretation at all. If the character is unconscious, they shouldn't be able to make choices. There's nothing that says they can't, but that doesn't sit well with me.

Me neither. I would rule that a character who can no longer take actions (perhaps by being unconscious, or stunned, etc.) could no longer choose to not make the save. Specifically, for my home games I might word the power as:

"At the end of your turn, you can use a free action to choose not to make a saving throw against this ongoing damage."

 

[LightPhoenix]

Me neither. I would rule that a character who can no longer take actions (perhaps by being unconscious, or stunned, etc.) could no longer choose to not make the save. Specifically, for my home games I might word the power as:

"At the end of your turn, you can use a free action to choose not to make a saving throw against this ongoing damage."

Really, petrification should simply indicate that all effects requiring a save automatically end.

Once petrified, you're effectively out of combat. There are some edge cases that can bring you back, but overall you're effectively (and literally) unconscious. So any effects requiring a save are moot anyway.

Most monster abilities don't let you save; those few that do usually don't use the gradual petrification mechanic and probably should (Grey Dragon, looking at you).

Even fewer PC powers cause petrification (four by my count), in which case why not have it act the same for PCs as monsters? They're all Dailies, and all require multiple failed saves.

 

[Brys]

How about a question to answer the question...if the cleric continues taking the damage until they fall unconscious, would you allow them to continue SoL until they died at negative bloodied?

RAW, I would argue that the power has the character making the choice and they must make the choice not to save at the end of each turn. Once they were unconscious, they could no longer make the choice and they would be forced to save against it (they no longer have the Will to override their survival instinct).

If I were DM and the player wanted to go out in heroic fashion I would allow this is as a single choice: when you go below 0, you get to make the choice once. You either continue healing until your are dead (heroic) or you must make the saving throw to stop SoL (pragmatic). Once you are unconscious, you have no awareness of your surroundings to change your mind.

As long as you are consistent with your ruling between petrified and unconscious, I think you'll be okay.