Stoneskin debate

[mfrench]

Here's an interesting situation that can come up with Stoneskin:

You take enough damage that the amount the spell can still take is something less than 10 (let's just call it 1). On the next successful attack, how much does Stoneskin prevent?

A) One point, because it discharges after taking that point of damage.

B) Ten points: You have DR 10 before the attack, and it cannot be discharged after the first point but before the rest of the damage.

C) Other?

For reference:

The warded creature gains resistance to blows, cuts, stabs, and slashes. The subject gains damage reduction 10/adamantine. (It ignores the first 10 points of damage each time it takes damage from a weapon, though an adamantine weapon bypasses the reduction.) Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 150 points), it is discharged.

 

[Drowbane]

10pts.

Its DR 10, whether the spell can take 1pt or 100pt more dmg.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

10pts.

Its DR 10, whether the spell can take 1pt or 100pt more dmg.

So it can theoretically prevent 159 points of damage?

 

[Dread Polack]

My judgment, based on the text of the spell "Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 150 points), it is discharged.", it immediately is discharged (it doesn't say on the next attack, next round, or anything else like that), and you'll take the remaining damage.

You can also think of it this way: it will absorb up to 150 hp of damage, up to 10 at a time, per attack. Once you have only 1 hp of absorption left in your spell, it will only stop one.

It seems pretty clear to me.

Dread Polack

 

[Nifft]

Ooo, I voted for the wrong one by mistake. Meant to hit "10 pts", not "1 pt".

IMHO, the spell would resolve thusly:

1/ (It ignores the first 10 points of damage each time it takes damage from a weapon, though an adamantine weapon bypasses the reduction.)

This stipulates that, while the spell is in effect, it gives you DR 10/adamantine. Not DR min(what I've got left, 10) / adamantine.

For this attack, you have DR 10/adamantine.

2/ Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 150 points), it is discharged.

After the spell absorbs 150 points of damage, it ends. Absorbing 159 points includes absorbing 150. The spell ends after this attack.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DogBackward]

DR doesn't take things down one point at a time, it's all at once. I realize there's no specific rule for this, but without a rule, common sense takes over. DR 10 is not ten different mini-armors, it's one big armor. Before the attack, the spell would have absorbed 149 damage. Then you take 10 damage, and it's all negated, for two reasons:

1. You have DR 10/adamantine, which negates ten damage.
2. The spell has not yet ended, because it has not yet absorbed the entire 150 points.

Then, after the attack hits, and after the ten damage is negated, then the spell has absorbed 159 damage. It has therefore absorbed a total of 150 damage (and then some), and the spell ends.

You're right, it does seem pretty clear. If the spell description worked more like Temporary HP or something like that, then I could understand ending right at 150, no matter what. But it's not Temporary HP, it's DR.

 

[Drowbane]

So it can theoretically prevent 159 points of damage?

By RAW, absolutely. Its a very minor loophole. Is this a big deal? No, it really isn't. If the designers had noticed they might have made it absorb up to 141, allowing for that situational 9pts of overage to hit the 150 mark. Oh the otherhand, perhaps they didn't think it was a big deal either.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

You can also think of it this way: it will absorb up to 150 hp of damage, up to 10 at a time, per attack. Once you have only 1 hp of absorption left in your spell, it will only stop one.

If that's the case, why is the spell framed in terms of damage reduction instead of simply absorbing damage (a la the brooch of shielding)? Or even saying, "stoneskin absorbs the first 10 points of damage from each hit not made with an adamantine weapon, up to 150 points of damage total."

I don't know that I'd say it's clearly one or the other, but I'm putting my vote behind absorbing 10 points.

 

[Dread Polack]

Hm... you make a good point. Here's my reasoning:

I wouldn't say that it's "framed in terms of damage reduction" if you read the entire description. I also wouldn't say that DR is either ten mini-armors or one big armor.

Normally, if it just gave you DR 10, then it would be pretty clear, however, this gives you DR 10, and then goes on to say that it gives it only in a limited way. Specifically, that it prevents only a limited number of hp before discharging. When I read a spell, text later on in the description usually over-rules text earlier in the description. Basically it says "you get x, except for y," which is basically what this spell says. "You get DR 10, except it'll only prevent up to 150 pts of damage." That's how I took it, and I think it make sense.

It also says it that it is discharged "once it prevents 150 hp of damage" So, with fewer than 10 points left on the spell, you run out halfway through the act of applying damage, and how can you start with DR 10, and lose it while you're taking damage. Looking at it that way seems complicated, if you insist that you can only either have DR 10, preventing 10 points, or not have DR 10.

I'd agree, except it specifically says, in the text of the spell "Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 150 points), it is discharged."

So, I think I make a good point too.

Having said all that, I'm good with either interpretation. It's a difference of less than 10 hp. Especially at lower levels, I'd be tempted to go with option B to make it more useful for survivability's sake.

D&D rules can be ambiguous, and this isn't even a particularly bad case. If I was writing the spell, I'd either describe it the way I did before, or else say "You get DR 10, until you pass X hp in an attack, after which your DR goes away".

Dread Polack

 

[mfrench]

By RAW, absolutely. Its a very minor loophole. Is this a big deal? No, it really isn't. If the designers had noticed they might have made it absorb up to 141, allowing for that situational 9pts of overage to hit the 150 mark. Oh the otherhand, perhaps they didn't think it was a big deal either.

I agree that it isn't that big of a deal hypothetically. When it comes down to does a PC / BBEG die on a specific blow? It can be a contentious issue. That's why I'm trying to establish it before it comes up in one of the next battles.

I find it interesting that this is one of those funny rules that two sides both think they're "obviously" correct.