D&D 5E Story Rewards instead of level rewards?

[dave2008]

I was just reading a post by Keith Baker (University Adventures) were he was discussing the idea of setting a D&D campaign in a school. As part of that he discussed "Story Rewards." Here is what he had to say:

"Story rewards. I’d drop the standard experience point system and base character advancement either on time or on clearly established milestones. It’s also possible that you could tie specific class abilities to in-game situations. If you want to learn a specific spell, you’re going to have to sneak a particular spellbook out of the Library. You may be a 3rd level fighter, but to get the abilities of your Martial Archetype you’re going to have to find a mentor. This is a way to blend story and mechanics together. In a game at school you’re not likely to be amassing TREASURE—so one option is for the rewards you gain to BE access to locations or the favor of teachers—but those can be linked to concrete rewards, whether it’s access to your full class abilities or something beyond that, such as Supernatural Gifts or Marks of Prestige from the Dungeon Master’s Guide."

What I like from this idea is that you have to do something to get your abilities (find a spellbook/scroll to get a particular spell or have someone train you to get your class feature), you don't get them simply from gaining a "level." In fact, I could see pretty much removing XP and levels completely if you really follow this approach to the end. I have been interested in doing something like this before, but never implemented it.

So, I was wondering, has anyone used a system of advancement like this before? If so, how well did it work? What was your experience?

 

[aco175]

I had something like this in 3e. It worked alright, but training times between characters were different and some needed longer to train leaving others to want to go adventuring again while some trained. There was also a problem with balancing the realism of having it more difficult to find a mage to teach you teleport over a fighter to teach you cleave. At one point I allowed the PCs to pre-train up one level and handwaved that they were working on what they were taught and one day it all made sense (hence gaining a new level).

I could see some abilities that are in place of the standard ability that could be learned at a school or academy or some sort. Say a fighter wanted to retrain his martial power from 1st level or pick up a cool new power similar to a 4e power that would take the place of something he has now.

 

[jmartkdr2]

One thing that this might do is force the party apart - the quest to learn teleport is probably not going to interest the fighter all that much, so he's going to go learn power attack, while the rogue learns the sneak attack better, and the cleric learn whatever.

If it's all downtime activities, the difference would be moot - you finish the adventure, so you can learn X class features. (I guess you get away form levels, but that's getting away form Dungeons and Dragons as a ruleset.) If you want the rewards story-driven, they'll always be a motivator for one character at a time.

This might work better if you're running a PbP or open table thing where parties aren't expected to stick together anyways.

 

[TwoSix]

My next planned game is going to be like this, although there is no class progression; every ability past 1st level that's gained is dependent on the character acquiring it through play. The game is more 5e-adjacent that pure 5e, though.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Addendum: I have played rpg's with point-buy advancement before. It take more work to keep them coherent and balanced (because someone who specializes in violence can nearly always choose to steal the spotlight form nonviolent characters), but they can work.

 

[Umbran]

This sounds great in a fantasy novel with one main character, but for a party of five who are all main characters, you run into time, travel, and interest issues.

Each character will want to go through different trainings. The teachers will be in different places. Going to City X for the wizard to train, then going off to the Forest of Y for the druid to train, and so on... the party will spend significant time just chasing advancement, putting them in places most of them have no interest in to wait around for a character to advance.

Alternatively, they split up in downtime to train - but now you are doing a whole bunch of solo stuff, or just glossing over it... and if you are glossing over it, why bother?

 

[dave2008]

There was also a problem with balancing the realism of having it more difficult to find a mage to teach you teleport over a fighter to teach you cleave.

In 4e a handle this somewhat by having a local mage that apprenticed the wizard in the group.

 

[dave2008]

One thing that this might do is force the party apart - the quest to learn teleport is probably not going to interest the fighter all that much, so he's going to go learn power attack, while the rogue learns the sneak attack better, and the cleric learn whatever.

If it's all downtime activities, the difference would be moot - you finish the adventure, so you can learn X class features. (I guess you get away form levels, but that's getting away form Dungeons and Dragons as a ruleset.) If you want the rewards story-driven, they'll always be a motivator for one character at a time.

This might work better if you're running a PbP or open table thing where parties aren't expected to stick together anyways.

Or an all the same or similar class group

 

[DND_Reborn]

I was just reading a post by Keith Baker (University Adventures) were he was discussing the idea of setting a D&D campaign in a school. As part of that he discussed "Story Rewards." Here is what he had to say:

"Story rewards. I’d drop the standard experience point system and base character advancement either on time or on clearly established milestones. It’s also possible that you could tie specific class abilities to in-game situations. If you want to learn a specific spell, you’re going to have to sneak a particular spellbook out of the Library. You may be a 3rd level fighter, but to get the abilities of your Martial Archetype you’re going to have to find a mentor. This is a way to blend story and mechanics together. In a game at school you’re not likely to be amassing TREASURE—so one option is for the rewards you gain to BE access to locations or the favor of teachers—but those can be linked to concrete rewards, whether it’s access to your full class abilities or something beyond that, such as Supernatural Gifts or Marks of Prestige from the Dungeon Master’s Guide."

What I like from this idea is that you have to do something to get your abilities (find a spellbook/scroll to get a particular spell or have someone train you to get your class feature), you don't get them simply from gaining a "level." In fact, I could see pretty much removing XP and levels completely if you really follow this approach to the end. I have been interested in doing something like this before, but never implemented it.

So, I was wondering, has anyone used a system of advancement like this before? If so, how well did it work? What was your experience?

How about this idea:

Whatever features, spells, etc. you would gain for your next level, you have to acquire them all through training, research, questing, etc. and then you are awarded your level (you finally gain HD, increase proficiency bonus).

Example. a fighter going from level 1 to 2 would have to somehow gain the action surge ability. Maybe an adventure where his acting twice (i.e. action surging) saves someone or defeats the leader enemy?

It would require the DM to develop possibilities for the characters to level, but then you are really earning it.

IDK, just a thought... shrug

 

[dave2008]

This sounds great in a fantasy novel with one main character, but for a party of five who are all main characters, you run into time, travel, and interest issues.

Each character will want to go through different trainings. The teachers will be in different places. Going to City X for the wizard to train, then going off to the Forest of Y for the druid to train, and so on... the party will spend significant time just chasing advancement, putting them in places most of them have no interest in to wait around for a character to advance.

Alternatively, they split up in downtime to train - but now you are doing a whole bunch of solo stuff, or just glossing over it... and if you are glossing over it, why bother?

You could do a combination of traditional and learned / trained / found advancement that might mitigate some of these concerns.

Also, if the home base is a sizable city or town it might make sense for a lot of the items they need to be available in the city / town.