+ Str & Size change

[joshjurg]

We had a question the other night that I could not easily find the answer to. When an effect gives multiple bonuses Like a + to str in addition to an increase in size, is that taken into account in the + str bonus ? Look at the 8th level ability from the druids alternate class ability from the PHBII, for example.

Also in that example, are the damage dice and the bonus to strength before or after the size increase ? It seems that in most cases, a large creature's primary attack should be 2d6 - is that right ? Should the 1d8 be advanced to 2d6 when the size change occurs ?

I apologize in advance if this has been addressed before - my search yielded no answers.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'm pretty sure the changes for size are already included. According to the MM page 296, a large creature's bite does 1d8 and its claws do 1d6, which is the same as the ferocious slayer form. Large slams do 1d6 so the forest avenger gets a one step bonus, as does the elemental fury.

 

[Shin Okada]

Size changing spells and effects does not always have same amount of strength bonus. For example, Enlarge Person spell gives +2 size bonus to the target's strength, while Righteous Might spell gives +4 size bonus.

So, bonuses written in each spell or ability will be the all the character will get. In case of the said Druid ability, he will get +8 enhancement bonus to his strength and that is all he can get for his strength.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'm pretty sure the changes for size are already included. According to the MM page 296, a large creature's bite does 1d8 and its claws do 1d6, which is the same as the ferocious slayer form.

But, note that a Large druid who has this class variant gets the same bite/claw damage at size Huge. Personally, I think the PHII did a bad job on editing this one. The four main differences on this ability vs. wild shape: static damage not based on size, an enhancement bonus to strength and not a size bonus, an enhancement bonus to Fort saves (that likely stacks with everything as I don't recall any other such enhancement bonuses to saves), and that this ability is a magical size increase and alleviates the debate on whether animal growth/enlarge person stacks with wildshape (this clearly doesn't).

 

[joshjurg]

it is exactly why, Infiniti, it seemed to me that the damage needed to be scaled with size - I did miss the entry for bit & claw attacks, being a player myself and not a DM, I simply looked for large animals bite and claw damage. I feel somewhat relieved in knowing that the whole ability seems murky to someone else also.