Streetwise skill not needed

[DracoSuave]

Besides, there's crossover between skills as well (by design, check the DMG on skill challenges for as to why). For example, what skill do you use to identify a zombie? If you said 'Religion cause it's undead' you'd be right. If you said 'Nature cause it's of natural origin' you'd also be right. If you were faced with a natural humanoid (undead construct) then you could garner some win with Religion, Nature or Arcana.

If Diplomacy and Streetwise both share some applications, well, that's not bad for the game, as each also has distinct differences in their non-talky applications.

 

[N0Man]

I don't mean to sound pig headed but, nah. My believability quotient is being challenged with the idea that somebody can come into a town and instantly know which ally is safe and who to avoid. I think that should all be done through role playing and I dont like telling the players what is safe or not without an augury spell. Go there... find out for yourself... don't consult the prescient die roll. Again "macro" skill checks are not for me. If this ever happened I wouldnt like it:
DM - "You come into the town where you are looking for the ruby."
Player - "I make a Streetwise skill check to find where it is." Rolls die, "20!"
DM - "At the bank."
Player - "We go there."

As someone pointed out, the ability to spot dangerous alleys in a new city is VERY believable, if you've been in enough urban environments.

However, I still think you are looking at it all wrong, and seem to be so stuck with a prejudice for the skill that you are failing to see it for what it really is, and how it should be used.

Streetwise isn't about automatically knowing where places are and where to go, it's about having street-smarts to know how to find out where to find things and where to go. For an urban environment, it's the skill to be able to know what types of people to approach, how to approach them, understand their cues and innuendos when they don't want to come out and say certain things (when it comes to illegal activities), and just general urban savy.

As others have already said, it is VERY much like the skills of Nature and Dungeoneering when it comes to either knowing general information about their respective environments, and it's also very similar in that all 3 skills allow you to "forage" something (although in the case of Streetwise, it's *usually* foraging information).

I consider part of Diplomacy to be the other side of the coin of Streetwise. In the same way that Streetwise allows you to be able to recognize and use the social cues in an urban setting, Diplomacy allows you do that with nobles, royalty, or in other formal settings. I also consider it to be partly a knowledge skill which can be used in order to know about the history of kingdoms and nobility.

Here are what I think of actions I'd associate with each skill:

Streetwise:

• Finding information about how to buy contraband.
• Being able to spot a pickpocket.
• Finding someone who will tell you the gossip of how the mayor is a necromancer.
• Finding a decent inn where you are fairly safe.
• Fish for clues from a town guard to help determine if he's the type to take a bribe.

Diplomacy:

• Getting a noble to even talk to you (or perhaps convincing them to aid you).
• Convincing the constable that the mayor is an evil necromancer and to assist in the mayor's capture.
• Negotiate a treaty between 2 warring kingdoms.
• Convincing the Town Council to increase the reward offer for dispatching the
• Possessing the knowledge that the current king descends from a questionable lineage, and that there may be a more legitimate successor.

Off the top of my head.

 

[Herschel]

I don't mean to sound pig headed but, nah. My believability quotient is being challenged with the idea that somebody can come into a town and instantly know which ally is safe and who to avoid.

Let me guess, you're a suburbanite, right? There are usually signs as to which places to avoid in urban areas. Reading people, cars, businesses, etc. gives you a lot of clues as to the neighborhood you're in.

 

[Camelot]

Part of what I like about D&D is that, the way I play at least, history can be "rewritten." When a character is taking an extended rest where nothing interesting happens, the DM just skips over it and tells the players what happens the next day. But in the game world, the characters are socializing, eating, and keeping themselves occupied before going to bed and waking up the next day to go through their daily mornin rituals. A character probably doesn't limit himself or herself to talking with the other player characters, they would also talk to NPC bar patrons and such. While talking with NPCs, they could pick up some information that would come in useful later, but the players don't know about this because neither they nor the DM does not yet know if this happened.

Later, the group is negotiating with the duke. A perfect opportunity for Diplomacy and the other social skills. But I would also allow a player to use Streetwise to see if their character had picked up information on the duke while they were talking that could aid in their Diplomacy checks. In this case, Streetwise somewhat replaces Insight!

Skills overlap, but they each have very important niches in the game world. The way you DM could change that, but I would still leave Streetwise as an option should a player want to use it instead of Diplomacy, if it makes sense. Don't tell your players, "Okay, I don't like Streetwise, so we're just going to use Diplomacy instead." Just let them use Diplomacy instead when it comes to that situation, but if they're better in Streetwise, let them use that.

 

[Ryujin]

I might have added "Forage in Back Alleys" to the Streetwise skill use, to put it more in line with Dungeoneering and Nature. I still might.

When you're in a city and have no money, 'dumpster diving' is survival.