Stress Tracks and Consequences as resource depletion

[AverageCitizen]

I am a little confused as to how one would represent depletion as a consequence. Say, Mana, for example. What would that look like, in terms of stress tracks and consequences? A track that fills as you cast spells with only one consequence; "OOM", which means you can't cast spells? Something like that? Something else entirely?

 

[aramis erak]

A mana depletion can be a variety of different consequences...
Just tossing a few off the top of my head... but inspired by events in the Dresden Files novels.

• "Mana Drained" - the consequence is an aspect that makes it 2 harder to cast anything.
• "Out of Mana" - you cannot cast at all - effectively an anti-stunt - which is likely to take less time to recover than an equivalent "Mana Drained", but is no easier to actually recover from.
• "Exhausted" - you tapped your health to power the magic... no effect on further casting, per se, but all those physical actions that require stamina just got 2 harder.
• "Confused", "Pink Elephants on Parade," "My god, you're all made of ghosts" - you powered that one with your sanity... acquire a suitable delusion aspect.
• "Rubber Legs" - You converted the bones to power that one... essentially, your legs are gone.
• "Demonic Aura" - you spent soulfire, and everyone with the second sight can tell. At least until your soul regenerates...
• "Blinded," "Burned up casting hand," etc - You still have plenty of mana, but drew it too quickly, and the spillover resulted in a physical limitation.

 

[Umbran]

Well, stress and consequences aren't really designed to be a typical resource depletion mechanic, so you may be looking at a "square peg, round hole" situation.

Consequences don't seem intended to model something that happens repeatedly the same way. The consequence you take is generally supposed to be directly tied to the narrative that produced it, and if the narrative is always, "out of gas" that's kind of boring.

Also remember that mechanically, consequences don't typically outright *stop* the character from taking an action. They are Aspects that can make life difficult. So, if you have a consequences "Out of Magic Juice" that typically doesn't mean you *cannot* use magic, but that it may be more difficult if the opponent chooses to use the aspect against you.

Beyond that, the answer may depend upon the metaphysic of the magic system involved. Remember that the end result of taking stress and consequences is being "taken out" - meaning you cannot act in the scene at all. This goes well with a system in which use of magic can really burn the character out to exhaustion.

In which case, you can have a "mana" stress track, and just allow the character to take magic-related consequences if they run that stress track down. The consequences could be related to mana, magic, or just general fatigue to fit the narrative.

Note that consequences can last a while - If you deplete the resource enough to take a consequence, you may be out of mana for an entire session or even an entire story - at the upper end, this resource does not refresh quickly.

 

[AverageCitizen]

Well, stress and consequences aren't really designed to be a typical resource depletion mechanic, so you may be looking at a "square peg, round hole" situation.

Consequences don't seem intended to model something that happens repeatedly the same way. The consequence you take is generally supposed to be directly tied to the narrative that produced it, and if the narrative is always, "out of gas" that's kind of boring.

Also remember that mechanically, consequences don't typically outright *stop* the character from taking an action. They are Aspects that can make life difficult. So, if you have a consequences "Out of Magic Juice" that typically doesn't mean you *cannot* use magic, but that it may be more difficult if the opponent chooses to use the aspect against you.

Beyond that, the answer may depend upon the metaphysic of the magic system involved. Remember that the end result of taking stress and consequences is being "taken out" - meaning you cannot act in the scene at all. This goes well with a system in which use of magic can really burn the character out to exhaustion.

In which case, you can have a "mana" stress track, and just allow the character to take magic-related consequences if they run that stress track down. The consequences could be related to mana, magic, or just general fatigue to fit the narrative.

Note that consequences can last a while - If you deplete the resource enough to take a consequence, you may be out of mana for an entire session or even an entire story - at the upper end, this resource does not refresh quickly.

It does seem like a square peg, round hole situation, which is why I found it odd that Fate Core suggests it without giving an example. It says

"If the extra can suffer harm or be used up somehow, then it should take stress and consequences.

Then it talks about using it for wealth, but the wealth writeup doesn't actually contextualize the consequence boxes.

 

[Umbran]

It does seem like a square peg, round hole situation, which is why I found it odd that Fate Core suggests it without giving an example.

FATE Core isn't about being comprehensive.

Note that in that section, they are *not* talking about having FATE do "resource depletion", the way a modern gamer considers it, in the strong "gamist" resource-management minigame sense. That's not a FATE shtick. It is instead about how using up resources impacts, or is impacted by, the pacing of the narrative.

If you are using stress and consequences for magic, that says that magic is as integral, and important, to the character's continued existence as their bodily integrity is. When you run out of magic, that is as important as getting beaten up in a fight! It is more akin to systems like Shadowrun, which limits the use of magic through fatigue and physical damage to the user, rather than as, "I have so many mana points to spend today".

 

[AverageCitizen]

...If you are using stress and consequences for magic, that says that magic is as integral, and important, to the character's continued existence as their bodily integrity is. When you run out of magic, that is as important as getting beaten up in a fight! ".

I don't think so. You're suggesting that anything that has consequence slots in integral to the existence of the character. So you should only use the wealth variant if running out of money is a character-ending consequence? I don't believe that is their intent with all extras that use stress tracks. I think they leave it up to the GMs to create consequences that make sense for the attack, as well as a logical narration that flows from the attack that caused you to be Taken Out. To illustrate my point:

Taken out is bad—it means not only that you can’t fight anymore, but that the person who took you out gets to decide what your loss looks like and what happens to you after the conflict. Obviously, they can’t narrate anything that’s out of scope for the conflict (like having you die from shame)*, but that still gives someone else a lot of power over your character that you can’t really do anything about.
*Emphasis added.

I think the obvious narration that flows from a character taking themselves out from overspending is that they lose ranks their resources skill, or taking themselves out from over-using magic would be that they lose their magical powers. I am asking about other creative narratives for being taken out, and creative consequences along the way. I recognize that is some settings reckless magic users could die, like you said, and I actually think that is really cool, but it is not the ONLY way. But let me address that along side what you said about fatigue:

If you are using stress and consequences for magic, that says that magic is as integral, and important, to the character's continued existence as their bodily integrity is. When you run out of magic, that is as important as getting beaten up in a fight! It is more akin to systems like Shadowrun, which limits the use of magic through fatigue and physical damage to the user, rather than as, "I have so many mana points to spend today".

I honestly think this concept would be better represented if you had over-using magic count as an attack against your physical stress track, not some new-fangled mana track. We already have a stress track that represents fatigue and physical damage. Why would the new one we create for magic do the same thing? (Although, I suppose, we'd need something to define what constitutes over-use. Perhaps a magic stress track acts like a buffer, and when it is full things that tax it are applied to the physical stress track instead of going straight to consequences.)

So, anyway, I think aramis erak is on to something with his list, assuming magic-use has a new track (which implies consequences that are distinct from the kind you'd get from taking damage).

 

[Umbran]

I don't think so. You're suggesting that anything that has consequence slots in integral to the existence of the character. So you should only use the wealth variant if running out of money is a character-ending consequence?

Well, the fact of the matter is, it can be. The rules say that the GM should use this power only sparingly, but once you are Taken Out, being removed from play entirely is an option. You ran out of money, really overstretched your credit line? Oh, well, then when the BBEG sicks the cops on you, you can't hire a decent lawyer, and you're off to the Big House. Please create a new character.

If you don't want it to have that result, make wealth into an object external to the character (like, say, a company), with it's *own* stress track and consequences that are not the character's. Then, your money can get Taken Out, but leave you standing. This is also a suggestion for Extras.

I honestly think this concept would be better represented if you had over-using magic count as an attack against your physical stress track, not some new-fangled mana track.

Which is another suggestion the rules make for Extras. You can also put it on the Mental stress track, for slightly different flavor.

The point is, really, that if you use the character's stress and consequences to model "running out of magic", then running out of magic can lead to being Taken Out. It does put magic (or money) on par with any other way to be Taken Out, mechanically. It entails the same risks as getting shot at, which is something to be wary of.

 

[Umbran]

So, anyway, I think aramis erak is on to something with his list, assuming magic-use has a new track (which implies consequences that are distinct from the kind you'd get from taking damage).

You get another stress track. But you don't get a whole new Consequences track (I mean, you can do that, but I don't think that's the game's intent). You may have multiple stress tracks, but only one set of consequences for the character, typically.

 

[AverageCitizen]

You get another stress track. But you don't get a whole new Consequences track (I mean, you can do that, but I don't think that's the game's intent). You may have multiple stress tracks, but only one set of consequences for the character, typically.

Right, but the consequences are supposed to be related to the attack that caused you to take them. If you are taking stress on a new track, it implies there may be a new brand of consequences.

 

[AverageCitizen]

I apologize if I started off this thread with my hat in my hand asking for help and now I am all opinionated. In my defense, I have been reading FATE Core a lot this week and that gave me some ideas. You both were very helpful, for different reasons.