Stretching d20

[Colin_Fredericks]

So I'm editing this PDF magazine... first issue should be out sometime in April or late March if we're lucky. The basic idea is to make a game each issue; not an uber-complete in-depth one, but a solid one with a good amount of replay value. Many of the issues are going to be based on d20/OGL material because many, many gamers know at least the basics of d20.

I was curious as to how far people like to see d20 stretched. There's straight D&D, there's Arcana Unearthed (which makes some neat changes but doesn't fall too far from the tree), there's Traveler d20 (massively different background) and then there are things like Mutants and Masterminds that completely toss out major game mechanics and yet the game as a whole still works.

Are you a purist with your d20 games, or do you prefer to see a lot of innovation?

--Colin Fredericks
http://www.valentgames.com

 

[Crothian]

It depends on what type of book it is. A sourcebook for D&D for instance I like some new idea like spending XP in new ways or some new ways to do some old stuff.

For new campaign setting and new games, I don't care if it is basic SRD things or completely new rules like Mutants and Masterminds. As long as it fits what they are trying to do and gets the feel right, it's good by me.

 

[Desdichado]

The question is too open-ended. I really like Mutants & Masterminds, but in most cases, I'm not looking to integrate rules from it into a more D&D-like game. For example. So it depends on the scope of the game/article in question.

I'd say let Polyhedron be your guide here. They've added some fairly innovative stuff (Hijinks comes to mind) here and there, but only if it was really necessary for a particular genre emulation.

 

[Psion]

Well, I've already given you my take in the sister thread at RPGnet, but just in case anyone here has any commentary:

I was curious as to how far people like to see d20 stretched.

Changes in magic system -- cool, but you'd better have a good reason. There are plenty of "point based" spell systems out there; you'd better have a good reason for writing a new spell system other than "I wanted a point spell system."

Classes -- feel free to churn them, make them flexible, or whatever. But if your setting is d20 fantasy, you better have some reason for not using most of the existing D&D classes.

And finally, if you are going to try to make it classless, you had better make it sing, because otherwise, I'd rather just play Hero or some other point based system. Trying to sell people classless d20 strikes me as trying to sell Eskimoes refrigerators.

BAB, saves, etc. If you are targeting general d20 fantasy (AKA, D&D), stick with the formula. If you are making a stand alone game, feel free to try and impress me with your innovations.

Feats - Have 'em.

News Skills - Stick with broad skills. Don't invent new skills that overlap with existing skills (Forbidden Kingdoms, I am looking at you.) Where possible, tuck new skills under existing categories (profession, knowledge, etc.)

Drawbacks - If you have a drawback system, it had better be good. I have yet to see a drawback system in d20 I really like. And some I outright hate (Kenzer's Villain Design book, I am looking at you.)

Keep it simple - it's hard to summarize specifically what I am looking for here other than to say "if you can do something complex or simple with about the same results, opt for the latter." Example that comes to mind: T20 has a rule for "level 0" skills that allows you to use a trained skill, but if it's an untrained skill, you get level one instead. On the scale d20 uses, that's over-complicated. Just give people 1 rank in the skill of question and it is handled with minimal difference.

Keep it systematic / use existing conventions -- again, unless you have a good reason not to. T20 is again a culprit here by not using standard creature statistics. Bottled Imp's liches books, FFG's schools, and Bastions prestige races are also culprits, for having elements IN THE GAME that would be perceived precisely the same as a racial or prestige class, but in the rules are handled by a whole different set of mechanics.

 

[Desdichado]

Classes -- feel free to churn them, make them flexible, or whatever. But if your setting is d20 fantasy, you better have some reason for not using most of the existing D&D classes.

That doesn't strike me as very hard, though. The D&D classes are really only appropriate for, well, D&D. Any other type of d20 Fantasy is likely to need other classes. Heck, even other D&D settings, like Rokugan, Sovereign Stone, Midnight, etc. need mostly all new classes to fit.