Stripping alignment out of D&D

[Liminal Syzygy]

I've read some comments here and there from people who mentioned eliminating alignment from their D&D games.

It seems like it would be difficult, as the alignment system is so ingrained and far reaching (even more so for 3.5 than 3.0 due to changes in DR) so I would be very interested to hear how anyone who has tackled this did it, and how successful they felt it was.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I've read some comments here and there from people who mentioned eliminating alignment from their D&D games.

It seems like it would be difficult, as the alignment system is so ingrained and far reaching (even more so for 3.5 than 3.0 due to changes in DR) so I would be very interested to hear how anyone who has tackled this did it, and how successful they felt it was.

Palladium handles alignment much better than D&D, making it a personal code of conduct/honor, citing multiple examples of appropriate, typical behavior, etc. Not having an alignment system is easy. Most RPGs don't have one. The real world doesn't have one, after all. Just about everything is shades of grey, not black and white. Just chuck it out, or if you aren't comfortable with that, replace it with a less hard and fast system like the Palladium FRPG, the Law vs. Chaos conflict of Michael Moorcock's Elric (where good and evil are much less relevant) or the upcoming Conan d20 RPG's Code of Honor system. Sure, you'll have to fudge a few things to fit, but that's all part of the fun. Good luck!

 

[Ackem]

IMC, I changed alignment from representing a being's morality to being a metaphysical taint. It's only found natively on Outsiders and some really weird Abberations. Other creatures radiate no Alignment normally, however they can pick up a taint by associating with Outsiders.

So, someone whose merely morally lacking or whose just a good person has no alignment. Someone who worships, has summoned, worked with, recieved a favor from an Outsider will pick-up a slight taint, this taint increases with time and with the degree of association. The vile serial rapist will not radiate evil and not be effected by Protection From Evil. The slightly shifty middle manager, who once used a demonic charm to get that promotion, will be have a tiny aura and be minorly effected by alignment using spells (mechanically works as recieving a bonus on saving throws against alignment based spells or automatically suceeding on saving throws, depending on degree of minor taint). The cultist who worships devils will be functionally the same as an evil cleric in base D&D.

There's alot less importance to Alignment but it's still kindof there where it needs to be.

 

[Ottergame]

I actually though Palladium handeled alignments extreamly poorly. Much like their joke of a skill system.

Just change DR type to magic and turn classes with alignment restrictions to a code of conduct. It wouldn't be that hard to remove alignments from the game. Shoot, I don't recall playing in a game where alignments were even considered except in the rarest of times.

 

[d4]

IMC, I changed alignment from representing a being's morality to being a metaphysical taint. It's only found natively on Outsiders and some really weird Abberations. Other creatures radiate no Alignment normally, however they can pick up a taint by associating with Outsiders.

this is how i'd do it. make things like GOOD and EVIL be supernatural qualities, and not merely a descriptor of the relative ethics of the individual.

so magic weapons can still be holy or unholy, and supernatural entities like outsiders and undead can still be Good or Evil, but your average mortal-type humanoid doesn't even get an alignment.

 

[MarauderX]

This subject always pops up now and again, and it is pretty easy to go about a campaign with no alignment. I ran a few campaigns a while back that didn't include alignment, and typically the same things happened. Players start to realize they can get away with acting badly to NPCs as long as they can get away with it, then wonder why no one in town will talk to them any more. IMC, it could be frustrating if players don't understand the consequences of their own actions, and overall it just serves to steer the PCs to do good things to achieve more rewards. Once they realized this most of the players kinda went along with not stealing from, killing or threatening NPCs all of the time and still move forward, but there always seemed to be one player that wanted to take the most advantage of no alignments by acting extremely evil (say, killing for some cash) then have a change of heart suddenly and commit an act of good to 'make up for it' (give the stolen cash back and then some). Perhaps they were bipolar.

My new solution: Ask the players to commit to running a character more or less around an alignment, and take away NPC alignments altogether so they won't know.

 

[Vaxalon]

Okay, let's say you have a system where only outsiders, and those who associate with them, are actually aligned.

Does it make sense that a serial baby-eater should be able to handle a holy sword with no repercussions?

 

[d4]

Okay, let's say you have a system where only outsiders, and those who associate with them, are actually aligned.

Does it make sense that a serial baby-eater should be able to handle a holy sword with no repercussions?

well, yes. it that particular worldview, mortals don't have alignment.

now if you want the baby-eater to be harmed by the goodness of the sword, you're operating in the default D&D alignment system, where everyone has an alignment.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

Thanks Acrem... That middle road is something to think about.

Hmm I have two replies telling me it's simple. Am I just working myself up?

What would you do about spells with alignment descriptors? Any Cleric can cast any spell? Remove them?

What about magic items (like the Holy Sword mentioned above) that key into alignment somehow? Trash them all? Anyone can use them? Am I missing some other clever solution?

As for DR... Re-adapt 3.0's DR system with it's own set of flaws?

 

[Vaxalon]

Personally, I think there are better ways to handle "the alignment problem" than to just toss the whole alignment system. There are just too many places in fantasy literature where only someone who is "pure of heart" can pass the test.