Stronghold Builder's Guidebook Prices

[Hardhead]

Is it just me, or are the prices in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook a bit steep? I mean, most of the room's prices are very high unless you buy the "basic" versions. To my mind, characters should be able to afford a very nice house/small fort around 5th level, a basic castle at 10th level, a castle with all the knobs on at 15th level, and a high-fantasy castle (like a floating tower) at 17th-20th level.

Yet, the prices presented allow nothing like that. The "cheap keep" costs 70,000.

Let's make some assumptions about how much the group is spending on their home. We'll say that everyone pitches in to buy it (something you can't count on - it's not what's happening in my group!) and they're a typical four party group. We'll say there spending 1/5th of their wealth on it. That's more than I would spend on something that won't help me stay alive in adventures, but hey.

Under these assumptions, our four-person group can afford the "cheap keep" (which only has three bedrooms, I might add) at 12th level, given normal party gold amounts. A nice, but non-magical castle like the "coral castle" can be afforded at 19th level (OK, its' underwater, but it's not airtight, just built for mer-people, and so it's price isn't modified from a similar land-based castle. And there are no land-castle examples in the book that are in the same price range).

Larger non-magical castles like the Dwarven Redoubt are unaffordable at all levels to our theoretical party. The really cool ones like floating towers cost 2.6 million (compared to the 375k of the coral castle). The Citadel of the Planes is 2.3 million. These are right out, cost-wise.

Even the Landlord feat helps, but still doesn't completly aleviate the problem. The feat gives you "virtal money," in the form of contacts, ect to help you build your castle. With it, that Coral Castle at 15th level (assuming you're still putting in 1/5th of the party treasure in additon to your feat).

Am I the only one that thinks prices in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebooks needs to come down? As a player, I want to build a cool building eventually, but with the current prices, I'll never be able to afford something cool like a floating tower, even at 20th level!

 

[Otterscrubber]

These prices sound about right to me. Building things like floating castles should take substantially more than 20% of your resources, whatever your argument. Things like the Dwarven redoubt are places built by communities as opposed to individuals. It takes some roleplaying but it can be done. Stronghold building just isnt that much a part of an adventuring life. If you want to build a stronghold it is usually because you are a ruler of some type over land and people. Its a different aspect of the game and not one that gets done in your spare time. It even mentions this in the stronghold builders guide. I'm not saying it cant be done in game terms but you can't take off on long planar spanning adventures and simply leave a note with you secretary to build you a castle while you are out and expect it to be all done when you get back.

Besides, a lot of the costs are base costs. They can be reduced numerous ways, by finding cheap labor or using magic. Cheap labor can take the form of you making friends with a local dwarven kingdom or some such story. At high levels this is still a lot of work but can be a rewarding role-playing experience in itself.

 

[CyberSpyder]

It can definitely be a bit high. Take a simple village cottage made of wood.

You've got basic bedrooms (1 space, 700 gold)
A basic kitchen (1 space, 2000 gold)
And probably a basic bath (.5 space, 400 gold)

We're building all the walls out of wood, so those 2.5 spaces cost 2500 gold.

Cheapest door we can get for it is 10 gp; we'll assume that there are no doors on the inside. Two simple shutters will cost another 10 gold. A simple lock for the front door runs to 20 more. And that...seems to be it.

Anyway, total cost of that will be 5620 gold. A 1st-level commoner can have a maximum of four ranks in his profession, which amounts to 2 gold per week of work. Thus, it would take someone 2,810 weeks of solid work (54 years!) to afford this exceedingly minimalistic house, which is probably a fair bit past the average life expectancy of the D&D universe.

So, yeah. A bit on the high side.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Anyway, total cost of that will be 5620 gold. A 1st-level commoner can have a maximum of four ranks in his profession, which amounts to 2 gold per week of work. Thus, it would take someone 2,810 weeks of solid work (54 years!) to afford this exceedingly minimalistic house, which is probably a fair bit past the average life expectancy of the D&D universe.

54 years... assuming he doesn't eat or spend money.

 

[CyberSpyder]

54 years... assuming he doesn't eat or spend money.

Good point. A somewhat plausible saving rate for an especially sensible person might be 25% of their income - which would make for just 216 years of work to get that hovel.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

You could swap out the basic bath with an outhouse...would that save you some gold?

DS

 

[silentspace]

Just some random thoughts…

How many years does it take a modern-day serf (minimum wage worker) to buy a house?

In feudal times, I’d assume your typical commoner would put in a lot of the work building his house himself. His whole community might help. Also, the typical commoner’s house will probably not be as well built as a cottage a 5th level adventurer would have. They might be built out of cheaper materials too – sod, mud bricks, straw… In feudal times, the serfs were pretty poor. They were virtually slaves.

Labor prices seem off. It says labor is roughly 30% of the cost. In the US today, labor accounts for 80% of the cost of house building (wood frame construction). In most of the developing world it accounts for 50-60%. In a feudal society (basically a slave society), 30% might be right, I don’t know.

 

[silentspace]

In medieval times, only the very wealthy had indoor kitchens or bathrooms. In early colonial America, a house with an indoor kitchen (and outdoor bathroom) was considered a "mansion". Mansions were often no larger than 20x20 foot, with the basement being a kitchen.

 

[sparxmith]

In my campaign, I have a group of adventurers who decided to build themselves a fort from the crubmling ruins of an old monastery.

I used the rules presented in the PHB/DMG for profession to come up with their complete cost.

I have a real life history of consturction (I'm a welder--hence the name Sparxmith, and I've worked on constructing/demolition of oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico), so I had a fair idea of how long construction takes.

The characters hired a team of dwarven stonesmiths and laborers to construct an repair the walls. They negotiated a rate of 165 gp/wk (15 gp for the foreman, 10 gp/wk for the workers x 10 workers), and I figured that it would take 4d10+4 weeks (appx. 6 mos.) to complete. I then figured material costs as being equal to 150% of the labor costs.

This gave me a base price of 4290 gp for labor and 6435 for materials, and a total of 10725 gp for walls.

I then figured that carpenters would be building the interior of the fort while the dwarves built the exterior walls. I rolled 1d4+3 days per room, and the characters negotiated a rate of 2 gp/wk for carpenter and helper team. I also assumed 150% material rate. Given that the characters were having an inn (7 rooms), a shrine (2 rooms), a blacksmith shop (3 rooms), and a personal residence for the group to share (8 rooms). This was a total of 100 gp for materials and labor.

Totaling in furnishings, staffing, hire guards, etc., the characters spent 12,500 gp for a rebuilt monastery.

How do these numbers match up? I dunno, I haven't seen the book in question, but these numbers seemed right to me for 4 6th level characters.

 

[Pagan priest]

It can definitely be a bit high. Take a simple village cottage made of wood.

You've got basic bedrooms (1 space, 700 gold)
A basic kitchen (1 space, 2000 gold)
And probably a basic bath (.5 space, 400 gold)

We're building all the walls out of wood, so those 2.5 spaces cost 2500 gold.

But a realistic village cottage would be less than one space in size! Through out most of history, a person that had a dwelling that was 15' x 30' was well off. A serf might have to make due with something on the order of 10' x 20' (and that includes the area where the family livestock sleeps). A building of 2 or 2.5 spaces in size would be the house of a prosperous merchant or village official.

On the other hand, the prices in the book reflect rooms that are fully furnished to follow their function, the kitchen has all the appropriate pots, stove, and platters, etc.