Studded Leather, is it a metal armor for game purposes?
- Thread starter Wolfix
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From a balance perspective, I think it is reasonable to rule that studded leather is metal armor (at least for this power). The power does 1D6+1 damage per PP for fire and cold, but 1D6 for Lightning, just in order to get +3 to hit. Since it is a range touch attack, it will hit most of the time anyway, so the manifester is giving up 1 point of damage per PP in order to get +3 to hit.
Ranged touch attacks hit at least 50% of the time (and often a lot more often) for most characters against most similar CR level opponents. Hence, 50% * 4.5 per die = 2.25 per die versus 65% * 3.5 per die = 2.275 per die means that the manifester is often averaging about the same damage for the attack by using the Lightning. And as the chance to hit increases (as levels go up), the Lightning option averages even less damage per die in comparison.
Pros and cons, it seems balanced (at least in this case).
Ranged touch attacks hit at least 50% of the time (and often a lot more often) for most characters against most similar CR level opponents. Hence, 50% * 4.5 per die = 2.25 per die versus 65% * 3.5 per die = 2.275 per die means that the manifester is often averaging about the same damage for the attack by using the Lightning. And as the chance to hit increases (as levels go up), the Lightning option averages even less damage per die in comparison.
Pros and cons, it seems balanced (at least in this case).
UltimaGabe
First Post
RigaMortus said:
No, it's Studded Leather. The rules aren't saying, "You can only wear armor that's made of leather," just like they're not saying, "You can only wear armor that's padded," because if that were the case, Full Plate would be a viable choice for Druids (as even Full Plate has padding). Padded Armor, Leather Armor, and Hide Armor are three specific kinds of armor.
Storyteller01
First Post
A few things come to mind here: 
- Someone sticking a screwdriver where it doesn't belong can expect to get fried, and that screwdriver possesses much less metal than the studded leather.
EDIT: And usually has a plastic or rubber handle (not much for insulation, but better than leather)
- Lightning can hit a tree, travel several dozens of feet through the ground soil, and kill a human by travelling up one leg and down the other. The human doesn't have to stand under the tree. Using that, I would guess that the leather may not be much of an insulator.
- Anyone wearing that much leather in combat will be sweating!! All that moisture would complete the circuit between all those metal studs and your body.
- Someone sticking a screwdriver where it doesn't belong can expect to get fried, and that screwdriver possesses much less metal than the studded leather.
EDIT: And usually has a plastic or rubber handle (not much for insulation, but better than leather)
- Lightning can hit a tree, travel several dozens of feet through the ground soil, and kill a human by travelling up one leg and down the other. The human doesn't have to stand under the tree. Using that, I would guess that the leather may not be much of an insulator.
- Anyone wearing that much leather in combat will be sweating!! All that moisture would complete the circuit between all those metal studs and your body.
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Nail
First Post
Whereas I think the CON side has the better arguement list.KarinsDad said:
Moreover, you could interpret the druid statement as "its got enough metal to count against the druids restrictions.....but not enough to be treated as a mostly metal armor". I don't see any subtantial problem with that distinction, especially as it is backed up by common sense.
Creat
First Post
While we're talking about the actual physics/reality (as far as you can speak of those in a fictional world only loosely based on the real world to be able to fit into simple rules):
A guy wearing a padded leather armor and a club with a wooden shield is on watch. The party gets ambushed. The poor guy is a much easier target (by +3) than the fighter who was just woken up by him (hence not wearing his whatever-heavy metal armor since it takes a few minutes to put it on) carrying a bastard sword and a large steel shield (the bastard sword alone would have easily (!) twice the amount of metal compared to the studded leather, I'm not even gonna start talking about the shield).
Storyteller01: You can't comparte a directed attack to an actual lightning (though, granted it's the closest thing we have in reality). If you include sweat in that calculation you're just making it more impossible to solve than it already is. The thing with the legs is based on the human body beeing a by far better conductor compared to dry (or possibly even wet) earth.
My final point: If you want realism and you want to give the +3 against someone wearing leather armor, you'd have to give it against pretty much everyone who even has as much as a sword or 2 to 3 daggers somewhere. As far as the actual rules go, the only one point that references studded leather as metal armor is the druids description (which could just as well be just a balance issue from the creators). All others - at least the ones listed by KarinsDad - consider it a non-metal armor (I'm including things like the relative weights of metal and leather in the armor in question here as well)
That should be enough to set your mind to non-metal, or just go with the balance comment concerning attack/damage - also given by KarinsDad - wich is probably the most relevant for this question, after all we don't want to have a copy of our reality we want a playable game. So balance is the key!
bye
Creat
A guy wearing a padded leather armor and a club with a wooden shield is on watch. The party gets ambushed. The poor guy is a much easier target (by +3) than the fighter who was just woken up by him (hence not wearing his whatever-heavy metal armor since it takes a few minutes to put it on) carrying a bastard sword and a large steel shield (the bastard sword alone would have easily (!) twice the amount of metal compared to the studded leather, I'm not even gonna start talking about the shield).
Storyteller01: You can't comparte a directed attack to an actual lightning (though, granted it's the closest thing we have in reality). If you include sweat in that calculation you're just making it more impossible to solve than it already is. The thing with the legs is based on the human body beeing a by far better conductor compared to dry (or possibly even wet) earth.
My final point: If you want realism and you want to give the +3 against someone wearing leather armor, you'd have to give it against pretty much everyone who even has as much as a sword or 2 to 3 daggers somewhere. As far as the actual rules go, the only one point that references studded leather as metal armor is the druids description (which could just as well be just a balance issue from the creators). All others - at least the ones listed by KarinsDad - consider it a non-metal armor (I'm including things like the relative weights of metal and leather in the armor in question here as well)
That should be enough to set your mind to non-metal, or just go with the balance comment concerning attack/damage - also given by KarinsDad - wich is probably the most relevant for this question, after all we don't want to have a copy of our reality we want a playable game. So balance is the key!
bye
Creat
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Well, other than the fact that the druid restrictions say, "You can't wear metal armor."
They then provide a list of things that aren't metal armor. Everything else, thereby, is metal armor (barring special materials, discussed separately).
They then provide a list of things that aren't metal armor. Everything else, thereby, is metal armor (barring special materials, discussed separately).
Nail
First Post
Fortunately, I have a PH on pdf.
Studded Leather: This armor is made from tough but flexible
leather (not hardened leather as with normal leather armor) reinforced
with close-set metal rivets.
So, can this armor gain the advantages of being made with adamantine? No....then it's not mostly metal, and therefore not "metal enough" to count vs this energy ray.
That's the part I'm hung up on, at any rate. But hey: like studded leather, I'm flexible on my position.
Studded Leather: This armor is made from tough but flexible
leather (not hardened leather as with normal leather armor) reinforced
with close-set metal rivets.
So, can this armor gain the advantages of being made with adamantine? No....then it's not mostly metal, and therefore not "metal enough" to count vs this energy ray.
That's the part I'm hung up on, at any rate. But hey: like studded leather, I'm flexible on my position.
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Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Earlier, someone posted a picture of studded leather armor.
I think it's a bad picture, because I don't think it really represents what the PHB terms studded leather.
I think:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/amasoni2002/shl/marvel/conan_the_barbarian_(1982).htm
(scroll nearly down to the bottom, look for the one with Conan on the horse) is really more what D&D is talking about. I'm still trying to find a better picture, though ...
I think it's a bad picture, because I don't think it really represents what the PHB terms studded leather.
I think:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/amasoni2002/shl/marvel/conan_the_barbarian_(1982).htm
(scroll nearly down to the bottom, look for the one with Conan on the horse) is really more what D&D is talking about. I'm still trying to find a better picture, though ...
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