Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip

[Felon]

I also completely disagree with Felon.

Well, I completely disagree with your complete disagreement.

Drive-by comments like that just so darn worthless. Easy to rebutt though, so I guess I shouldn't complain.

 

[Silver Moon]

Okay Felon, how about this. You make a lot of very valid points and I agree with some of them, but I still like the show so will continue to watch as long as it is still on the air.

 

[Fast Learner]

Here you go, see how much more informative this is:

Studio 60 was a lame show that deeply deserved cancellation.

No, it was an excellent show that deeply deserved renewal.

It was not sharp. It was not smart. It preened itself on sharp smartness that it didn't actually deliver.

It was sharp and smart, and delivered regularly.

People being all cocky and strident and making banter that largely consists of trying to screw up each other's witty metaphors is not all that "sharp".

Sure it is. It was the hallmark of Sports Night, and part of what made that show so great.

Being snobbish and condescending towards mainstream televeision (which Jordan refers to as "illiterate programming") does not inherently qualify as "smart".

If you think mainstream television is awesome, it does inherently qualify you as dumb.

I would agree with Alzrius that it was unfair for critics to compare it unfavorably to the West Wing, except that the show set itself up for that by pretending that every week's show was turning into the next Cuban Missile Crisis.

It was perfectly reasonable to compare it to West Wing, just as it's reasonable to compare it to Sports Night.

You've got a chairman and a persident of a network just hanging around this show having endless debates about content that really doesn't even have much impact simply because most folks go to bed before it comes on.

I suppose I don't disagree with this, but only because I don't understand it. This is a point of elucidation that wasn't in my "drive-by," so I suppose this detailed response is now worthwhile.

In the first episode, Judd Hirsch gets up and delivers his little networksesque shpiel that's supposed to decry the dumbing-down of what was once a showcase for brilliant satire. Now, this is supposedly a reference to Saturday Night Live losing its teeth, but in actuality it's romanticizing some era of SNL that never was. I remember Chevy Chase taking pratfalls over ottomans as Gerald Ford, for Pete's sake.

No, his character wasn't decrying the state of SNL, it was decrying the state of television overall.

Then there's an episode where they have a crisis over the sudden cancellation of a sketch about an inept bank robber taking hostages, all because some guy somewhere killed his family. Now, there's almost always someone somewhere being held hostage, so what is the message here? It's always in poor taste to have a sketch ever? Sorry, they really push the premise of Stuido 60's relevance too hard.

No, it's essential that a topical show like SNL (or the show-within-a-show-Studio-60) keep such things in mind, and was a good example.

And the real nail in the coffin? The show-within-the-show was a flop. Sorkin just could not figure out how sketch comedy works. Remember the big, brilliant opening sketch they do on the second episode to demonstrate the edgy new direction? And it was what? The cast singing to the tune of the "Modern Major General" song from the Priates of Penzance. Oh yeah, Gilbert & Sullivan references are THE cutting edge. So many folks can relate. Most of the sketches we got to see (like the fake news and Jesus Christs as the head of Standards & Practices) was just trying to take Sorkin's talent for snide banter and package it as sketch comedy, and that just doesn't cut it.

The show-within-the-show was plenty good for the premise, which is about the behind-the-scenes of such a show, not the show itself.

What a disappointment. Everything it was trying to accomplish needed to be executed with a much higher degree of subtlety.

It was executed brilliantly, and was doing its job great.

The best I could say about the show is that it had a few cute chicks.

I disagree.

Of course, the real irony is that in the face of all its smug condescension, it wound up getting replaced by "The Real Wedding Crashers".

That's not irony, it's simply a shame.

There, see how much more informative this was. Dude, I just disagree with everything you said. My spelling it out doesn't change anything. I disagree.

 

[Felon]

Okay Felon, how about this. You make a lot of very valid points and I agree with some of them, but I still like the show so will continue to watch as long as it is still on the air.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone continuing to watch the show. It disappointed the heck out of me, but to each their own.

 

[Felon]

There, see how much more informative this was. Dude, I just disagree with everything you said. My spelling it out doesn't change anything. I disagree.

Spelling it out has the benefit of hanging the basis of your opinion for others to see. Many people don't care what you can assert unless you can back it up. You ever seen that Monty Python skit about the guy looking for an arguement and all he gets is disagreement?

In this case, issuing a series of line-item disagreements that for the most part aren't substantiated by examples or anything else of an evidenciary nature undermines your disagreement, at least for those seeking something qualitative. In other words, elaboration helps people decide whether or not you're full of it.

 

[Fast Learner]

In this case, issuing a series of line-item disagreements that for the most part aren't substantiated by examples or anything else of an evidenciary nature undermines your disagreement, at least for those seeking something qualitative. In other words, elaboration helps people decide whether or not you're full of it.

If you take a moment to review your own argument, you'll find it lacks evidence and is purely a matter of opinion. As such, simple disagreement is just as effective.

I'm not trying to convince anyone it's a good show. I'm indicating that the items you claim are wrong with the show are things I disagree with, noting them as matters of opinion. Facts would need to be provided if I was disagreeing with something being claimed as fact.

 

[Sigdel]

Hey, if we are lucky it will get it's own movie, like Serenity. Or maybe it's own convention and line of toys.
In all seriousness, it was a good show that was canned not because it got crappy ratings, but because it did not get good enough ratings. Sorkin used it, too overtly, as a soapbox. The two shows picked to replce it did worse than S60, and were pulled even quicker. But this is just a simple fact of T.V. For every show thats canned, their will be fans of the show that morn it's passing.
And yes, that does include Cop-Rock.



I think :\

 

[John Crichton]

The newest ep was lots of fun. The show suffered too much from high expectations than anything else. I recently watched the first season of The West Wing and the characters were similarly scattered. However, that show was a superior piece of entertainment to Studio 60.

I think Sorkin made a mistake in trying to make it too similar to his other show. The format was fine but a lighter touch would have gone a long way to distance itself.

I do wish we would get another season. Sorkin shows tend to get stronger over time after the characters fine a better pace and familiarity.

 

[Silver Moon]

I think Sorkin made a mistake in trying to make it too similar to his other show. The format was fine but a lighter touch would have gone a long way to distance itself. I do wish we would get another season. Sorkin shows tend to get stronger over time after the characters fine a better pace and familiarity.

I agree - it took him a while to get the pacing and mood right about West Wing too - his original premise for it was that Rob Lowe's character was to be the star and that Martin Sheen would only make a cameo appearance every four or five episodes - it didn't take long for them to decide to change that but it was really season two before they hit upon the right flow.

As for Studio 60 - I think Sorkin's main problem was the emphasis on man-woman relationships, which was never his strong point with West Wing - that worked as subplots instead of the main plot. The sole exception to that were the excellent interchanges between CJ Craig and Danny which last week's Studio 60 played homage to.

 

[John Crichton]

I agree - it took him a while to get the pacing and mood right about West Wing too - his original premise for it was that Rob Lowe's character was to be the star and that Martin Sheen would only make a cameo appearance every four or five episodes - it didn't take long for them to decide to change that but it was really season two before they hit upon the right flow.

Good call on that one. I will admit to knowing nothing about the West Wing when it was on the air. I didn't start watching it until last year on DVD (only got through the middle of season 5 so far). And even then I could tell that they were trying to focus on Lowe at the beginning. The beauty of the show turned out to be all the other wonderful characters and how interesting they were. With a solid base of so many great characters, the rest just fell into place as the weekly themes rolled in. Not saying it was easy for Sorkin and crew, but the talented cast made it appear so.

I could also tell when Sorkin wasn't the head writer anymore, as I came to learn recently, was the start of season 5.

As for Studio 60 - I think Sorkin's main problem was the emphasis on man-woman relationships, which was never his strong point with West Wing - that worked as subplots instead of the main plot. The sole exception to that were the excellent interchanges between CJ Craig and Danny which last week's Studio 60 played homage to.

I agree, again. West Wing was at its best when it focused on crisis mode White House stuff. Sports Night, however, had some very nice man-woman relationship episodes. Although the best relationship on that show was Dan & Casey. Studio 60 needed more Matt & Danny and their interaction with the cast.