D&D General Styles of Roleplaying and Characters

[Umbran]

Pretty much every example in this thread is exactly the same in this regard. There's no mechanical difference between mental and physical tests in Burning Wheel, Fate doesn't care if the aspect you compelling is called "Trap-filled dungeon" or "Anger management issues".

And, because that's actually a design theme, let me add another example - for a game that's not released yet - Tales of Xadia, the RPG for The Dragon Prince animated series (which is really awesome).

Tales of Xadia is a Cortex Prime based game. They want conflicts to be multi-faceted, in which any character might be effective, so they've chosen a Stress-based approach to conflicts. When a PC fails a die roll, they take some Stress (rated as a die type, from d6 to d12). There are six kinds of stress - Afraid, Angry, Anxious, Corrupted, Exhausted, and Injured. Note that three of these are emotional, one metaphysical, and two physical. Generally, what type of stress you take depends on what is narratively appropriate, and what the opponent wants to achieve.

So, if you are in a swordfight, and you take stress, maybe you'll be Injured by the opponent's blade, or become Exhausted by how many swings you've needed to take. But maybe, with the banter during the fight, you've not taken a scratch, but your complete inability to succeed leads you to become filled with self-doubt and Anxiety about your competence. It is your opponent's choice.

What kind of stress you take does not control your choice of actions. However, your stress can be used against you. If you have to stand before the Duke and explain yourself, that die of anxiety can be added to the Wicked Advisor's roll when trying to discredit you, as you find it hard to express yourself convincingly while Anxious. The Stress is a modifier on rolls, not a determiner of actions.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Combat is different from non-combat. I don't need or want metagame rules outside of combat. I shared my opinion and reasoning.

I'm done with your gotcha postings trying to "win".

It's not gotcha. It's that you make an argument to try and claim a position that's clearly good -- "I don't do metagaming." The problem is that these are built on quicksand. I really don't care much that you don't like the idea or won't try these games or approaches. But when you make arguments that are flawed, especially when they are trying to cast a legitimate approach as non-legitimate, then these kinds of responses to you should not be surprising.

Don't like this approach or that, fine, totes cool. Claim that you can't like it because it's metagaming and expect that people will point out all the metagaming you already do and don't seem to mind.

 

[Ovinomancer]

And, because that's actually a design theme, let me add another example - for a game that's not released yet - Tales of Xadia, the RPG for The Dragon Prince animated series (which is really awesome).

Tales of Xadia is a Cortex Prime based game. They want conflicts to be multi-faceted, in which any character might be effective, so they've chosen a Stress-based approach to conflicts. When a PC fails a die roll, they take some Stress (rated as a die type, from d6 to d12). There are six kinds of stress - Afraid, Angry, Anxious, Corrupted, Exhausted, and Injured. Note that three of these are emotional, one metaphysical, and two physical. Generally, what type of stress you take depends on what is narratively appropriate, and what the opponent wants to achieve.

So, if you are in a swordfight, and you take stress, maybe you'll be Injured by the opponent's blade, or become Exhausted by how many swings you've needed to take. But maybe, with the banter during the fight, you've not taken a scratch, but your complete inability to succeed leads you to become filled with self-doubt and Anxiety about your competence. It is your opponent's choice.

What kind of stress you take does not control your choice of actions. However, your stress can be used against you. If you have to stand before the Duke and explain yourself, that die of anxiety can be added to the Wicked Advisor's roll when trying to discredit you, as you find it hard to express yourself convincingly while Anxious. The Stress is a modifier on rolls, not a determiner of actions.

How is it just a modifier if you aren't actually stressed? In your example, the advisor is using your anxiety on you, but how can this happen unless you're actually anxious in the fiction?

 

[Oofta]

It's not gotcha. It's that you make an argument to try and claim a position that's clearly good -- "I don't do metagaming." The problem is that these are built on quicksand. I really don't care much that you don't like the idea or won't try these games or approaches. But when you make arguments that are flawed, especially when they are trying to cast a legitimate approach as non-legitimate, then these kinds of responses to you should not be surprising.

Don't like this approach or that, fine, totes cool. Claim that you can't like it because it's metagaming and expect that people will point out all the metagaming you already do and don't seem to mind.

I prefer that some aspects of the game have detailed rules for resolution, there are aspects of the game I prefer minimal to no rules.

It doesn't matter how often you try to"win" by telling me I'm saying things that I'm clearly not.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I prefer that some aspects of the game have detailed rules for resolution, there are aspects of the game I prefer minimal to no rules.

It doesn't matter how often you try to"win" by telling me I'm saying things that I'm clearly not.

And that's fine. You can prefer that, I have no issues with you liking or disliking things I like or dislike. My argument isn't that you have preferences, it's in the arguments you present to support them that make incorrect assertions about things.

 

[Oofta]

And that's fine. You can prefer that, I have no issues with you liking or disliking things I like or dislike. My argument isn't that you have preferences, it's in the arguments you present to support them that make incorrect assertions about things.

I may well have misunderstood some things that were not clearly explained. Other things I have a better understanding, it's still not for me.

Beyond that, what exactly is your point other than just general harassment?

 

[Ovinomancer]

I may well have misunderstood some things that were not clearly explained. Other things I have a better understanding, it's still not for me.

Beyond that, what exactly is your point other than just general harassment?

Let me see... what if I said that the way you play is just a bunch of metagaming mechanics to figure out who wins in combat when you could just have the player say how their character wins in combat and how much, if any, damage they take while doing so? Would that be something you felt was worthy of correction?

This is, of course, silly to say because the point of your playing is because you don't want this to be just something you get to say but something that is challenges and that you get to take risks towards and find out what happens in combats, right?

 

[Oofta]

Let me see... what if I said that the way you play is just a bunch of metagaming mechanics to figure out who wins in combat when you could just have the player say how their character wins in combat and how much, if any, damage they take while doing so? Would that be something you felt was worthy of correction?

This is, of course, silly to say because the point of your playing is because you don't want this to be just something you get to say but something that is challenges and that you get to take risks towards and find out what happens in combats, right?

I'm done. Have a good one.

 

[Umbran]

How is it just a modifier if you aren't actually stressed? In your example, the advisor is using your anxiety on you, but how can this happen unless you're actually anxious in the fiction?

Well, what does it mean to be "actually stressed"? The game takes a "the proof is in the pudding" approach, and uses the dice of stress to enforce the issue when it would impact actions.

If you are Exhausted, you can try to run a marahon, but you're going to have a hard time of it. If you are Anxious, you can try to be boldly assertive, but your nerves will make it difficult.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Well, what does it mean to be "actually stressed"? The game takes a "the proof is in the pudding" approach, and uses the dice of stress to enforce the issue when it would impact actions.

If you are Exhausted, you can try to run a marahon, but you're going to have a hard time of it. If you are Anxious, you can try to be boldly assertive, but your nerves will make it difficult.

Right, sure, but the point is that these things have a meaning in the fiction. If I have an anxiety die, my character is anxious in the fiction. Otherwise there's zero relation to using that as a modifier and what's going on in the fiction. I don't see how you can say it's just a modifier to rolls rather than a modifier that goes along with the fictional state. IE, the advisor does just get a die to add for not good reason that's arbitrarily labeled "anxious," they take advantage of the character actually being anxious in the fiction and this is represented in the mechanics as a die. These two things are severable. In my understanding. I suppose you could make them severable, but then we've landed exactly at @Oofta's claim of nothing but metagame mechanics.