D&D (2024) Subclasses should start at 1st level

[Bill Zebub]

That's fine, but recognize that for new players, that isn't really an option, and also there are a lot of experienced players who prefer character building to be a more story-driven process.

This exactly why I prefer 3rd level. And not just for new players; it’s what I like for my own characters.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What about the people for whom playing their character is how it works now?

In my ideal, there are optional zero levels for them.

That way they have the option they want without invalidating 10% of the game for me.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Eldritch knight subclass from 1st level:

Level 1: Weapon bond, one cantrip known
Level 2: extra cantrip known, 1 spell known, one 1st level slot
Level 3: 2 more spells knows, extra 1st level slot

rest as normal.

Or level 1:
Fighting style: eldritch bond
2 cantrips, weapon bond.
Rest as normal.

 

[Bill Zebub]

In my ideal, there are optional zero levels for them.

That way they have the option they want without invalidating 10% of the game for me.

So only ~5%

Or maybe they should raise level cap to 22. Would that work for you?

EDIT: Or….if they raised the cap to 40 you would only be missing out on 5%, about the same as your idea for a level 0.

Then again, if we factor in how long it takes to gain levels, 1&2 are about 0.05% of the game.

Unless we are actually measuring likely levels actually played, in which case it’s more like 25%.

 

[Clint_L]

In my ideal, there are optional zero levels for them.

That way they have the option they want without invalidating 10% of the game for me.

You seem perfectly happy to suggest invalidating parts of the game as it currently exists for other folks.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You seem perfectly happy to suggest invalidating parts of the game as it currently exists for other folks.

Invalidating... by making a special effort to accommodate them without putting myself out?

Okay.

 

[clearstream]

CHARACTER ADVANCEMENT TABLE

LEVEL	PRO	FEATURE	TIER
0	+1	Race	COMMONER (LEVEL 0)
0	+1	Race
0	+1	Ability Scores
0	+1	Background
1	+2	Simple Combat	STUDENT (HERO/BASIC)
1	+2	Subclass
1	+2	Class
1	+2	Class Saves
1	+2	Class
2	+2	Subclass
3	+2	Class
4	+2	Feat	PROFESSIONAL (HERO/EXPERT)
5	+3	Class
6	+3	Subclass
7	+3	Class
8	+3	Feat	MASTER (PARAGON/CHAMPION)
9	+4	Class
10	+4	Subclass
11	+4	Class
12	+4	Feat	GRANDMASTER (PARAGON/MASTER)
13	+5	Class
14	+5	Subclass
15	+5	Class
16	+5	Feat	LEGEND (EPIC/IMMORTAL)
17	+6	Class
18	+6	Subclass
19	+6	Feat
20	+6	Boon	EPIC (EPIC/IMMORTAL)
(21)	+7	Boon
(22)	+7	Boon
(23)	+7	Boon
(24)	+7	Boon

I like this table (other than our disagreement about where subclass should start.) I'd designed a 0th-level for my campaign and it is very similar to what you have. You need to include the hit die however (add a column.) For instance, analyse Barbarian excluding the hit die... you'll notice that some of Barb's feats are invested in that d12 (based on toughness, we can call each step up from 1d6 a half-feat.)

 

[Yaarel]

I like this table (other than our disagreement about where subclass should start.) I'd designed a 0th-level for my campaign and it is very similar to what you have. You need to include the hit die however (add a column.) For instance, analyse Barbarian excluding the hit die... you'll notice that some of Barb's feats are invested in that d12 (based on toughness, we can call each step up from 1d6 a half-feat.)

In the Character Advancement table, the hit die at level 0 is d6, and this hit die generally represents Humanoid noncombatants.

At level 1, the Simple Combat level improves the hit die to d8. (Except for the Wizard class that swaps out the Simple Combat for magic features.) This d8 is typical for any Humanoids that player characters encounter in combat encounters.

Also at level 1 are two "levels" to further detail the class features. Some classes, like Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger, will use part of one of these class features to improve the hit die from d8 to d10. The Barbarian class will actually use a full class feature to improve the hit die from d8 to d12.

There doesnt need to be a column for the hit die because whatever the hit die is is established during level 1. From then on up, it is always that hit die for every level (unless multiclassing).

 

[Clint_L]

Invalidating... by making a special effort to accommodate them without putting myself out?

Okay.

I agree that you definitely are not putting yourself out.

 

[Maxperson]

Invalidating... by making a special effort to accommodate them without putting myself out?

Okay.

If 10% of any game were invalidated for me, I'd play something else. What have you been doing for the last 10 years? Starting at 3rd level?