D&D 5E Subtle and Not-So-Subtle Spellcasting

[Riley37]

I've seen several players, in noncombat interactions, declare the PC's casting of a spell, as if that were not an obvious action to immediately-nearby observers. One of them, in a tense bar scene, said "I tell him he's probably safe, unless he feels a drumming on his head; and I use Mage Hand to drum on his head". Player was assuming that one can use Mage Hand as invisible telekinesis, and that no one (in a crowded bar, in a tense situation) notices the casting of a spell.


Another player had his tiefling warlock PC go Invisible and sneak up on a heavily-guarded wagon in a caravan. (Needlessly; just because the wagon was heavily guarded.) A guard's PER roll exceeded the warlock's Stealth roll; the guard, hearing footsteps and/or seeing footprints, shouted "Lemme see hands in the air!" and blew an alarm horn. The PC, over the next few rounds, sprinted around the wagon, dropped Invisibility while behind the guard, then approached the guard. By this time, the guard had readied a bow, then noticed a tiefling approaching from around the wagon and readied a Prepared Action. Warlock then tries to create a distraction/misdirection/explanation by casting Thaumaturgy to create an ominous rustling noise from some nearby bushes. Warlock was within 10' of the guard, and said that the guard should see him just pointing his staff at the bushes. Thaumaturgy cantrip has a Verbal component. I allowed a Deception-versus-Perception contest; the guard won, and the guard immediately shot at the warlock. But I probably should not even have allowed the test, and said that in the moment that the PC even started the "Cast a Spell" action, the guard immediately used Reaction (prepared action, shoot the tiefling warlock).


I started a new group at another table (Adventurer's League at Friendly Local Gaming Store), and asked each player to describe their PC's entrance through the gates of the city of Phlan, including their interaction with guards (Black Fist) who ask their business and demand a toll. One player declared that he cast Charm Person at the toll-taking guard. As if he just needs to charm that one guard, and there aren't any other guards at the gates of a major city, who might notice and object. I'm kinda thinking, if I were guarding Phlan's main gate, and some traveller starts casting a spell at any of my fellow guards, then it would be time to for all of us guards to open fire.


Where do players get the idea that the Cast a Spell action is like Obi-Wan Kenobi using Force Manipulation, except without the gesture? Where do they get the idea that city guards don't mind you casting a spell on their buddy, or that they react more peacefully to Charm Person than to Hold Person or Dissonant Whispers? Where do they get the idea that they can cast as if using Subtle Spell, except without actually being a sorceror? And how can I inform them otherwise?



Consider what urban life would be like if *ANY* person you talked with might be casting Charm Person or Suggestion on you, while they were speaking with you, and *nobody within sight or earshot, had any way of noticing*. Spellcasters flat-out rule the rest of the population, or paranoia casts a shadow over every social interaction in public spaces such as the market square, or both.


Well, that's still true insofar as a Level 3 Sorceror can cast Charm or Suggestion, while applying the Subtle metamagic. That metamagic allows casters to omit the V & S components of a spell. But is the "Cast a Spell" action recognizable as such even if the spell has no V or S components?


I think I might have some generic NPCs approach PCs, and describe the following: "The half-elf in the blue cloak walks up to you, greets you, and starts casting a spell..." and see how PCs react. Does the PC let the NPC complete the casting of the spell, or does the PC treat the spellcasting as a potentially hazardous or hostile action? If several PCs are together, and PC Alpha notices an NPC casting a spell on PC Beta, how does PC Alpha respond?


And then: goose, meet gander. NPC guards aren't all helpless idiots which you can bully and fool as if they were pre-schoolers (and as if you had no inhibitions about running roughshod over pre-schoolers.) In a city or a village, some NPCs *are* actual preschoolers. Do PCs push around NPC preschoolers, just because you can? No? Then why do PCs treat NPC city guards with less respect than they give to NPC preschoolers?


Is it because you can get away with that kind of behavior in Skyrim?

 

[iserith]

Maybe everyone is just really tired of having stock interact-with-the-guards scenes and would rather move on to more interesting conflicts. So either they're using the spell to just skip past the scene or creating a conflict that will be more interesting.

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

You could occasionally ask the players to describe/show the verbal and somatic component when they cast a spell. That should remind them, that there are ways for NPCs to see or otherwise notice that a spell is being cast. An added bonus might be, that it makes spell casting a bit more interesting than just declaring an action, just as it does, when you describe the gory details of melee combat.

 

[Cernor]

I think that Charm Person/Suggestion/Friends kind of require that the recipient be unaware that you're casting the spell, unless it's hostile anyway in which case it doesn't really matter.

As I see it, the components for Charm Person are closer to saying "Come on, we're all friends here..." (Or words to that effect) while putting your hand on their shoulder than the typical "Cryptic chanting while waving your hands in the air dramatically" that most spells use. So while it's possible to know the spell is being cast, the target (unless aware of the spell's many variations) probably wouldn't realize it.

 

[TwoSix]

Where do players get the idea that the Cast a Spell action is like Obi-Wan Kenobi using Force Manipulation, except without the gesture?

If I had to make a guess, they probably get it from Obi-Wan Kenobi! It's the most pop-culture relevant example I know of a Charm Person type effect. Shockingly, players who have spells that are useful in social situations will often try to use them in social situations.

 

[Reynard]

I think that Charm Person/Suggestion/Friends kind of require that the recipient be unaware that you're casting the spell, unless it's hostile anyway in which case it doesn't really matter.

As I see it, the components for Charm Person are closer to saying "Come on, we're all friends here..." (Or words to that effect) while putting your hand on their shoulder than the typical "Cryptic chanting while waving your hands in the air dramatically" that most spells use. So while it's possible to know the spell is being cast, the target (unless aware of the spell's many variations) probably wouldn't realize it.

I disagree. Charm person is just as obvious as any other spells. In media it is usually accompanied by gestures and hissed words and maybe a little creepy smoke flowing p the target's nostrils.

The act of spell casting is, essentially, the caster grabbing onto the natural order and pummeling it into submission. It is an effort, no different than shoving a sword through someone's sternum. There are specific spells that are more subtle, and there are feats and class abilities that can make the act more subtle. But on its surface, casting is IMO obvious.

On top of that, giving everyone free "Still Spell" and "Silent Spell" works toward over powering spell casters (just like giving everyone free "Eschew Components"). Of course, one could make spellcasting more like using the Force, but you might want to consider the impact this will have on actual play.

 

[MoonSong]

On top of that, giving everyone free "Still Spell" and "Silent Spell" works toward over powering spell casters (just like giving everyone free "Eschew Components").

In general yes, but it acctually underpowers sorcerers who gave up a lot -a lot- to use these a few times per day.

 

[steeldragons]

I can't say where they get the idea. As for how to stop it?

Tell them "No." or "It doesn't work like that."

Unless the caster is a sorcerer with Subtle spell...which is kinda what the skill is for. Or Silent spell, but perception to notice hand gestures. Or Still spell, but Perception to notice you mumbling to yourself...spellcasting is obvious and noticeable.

Innate magic, like the tiefling's Thaumaturgy, I would kind of be inclined to make it automatically "Subtle". A minor or quick hand gesture. Maybe not even that, a thought. No speaking or components necessary. It's an "innate power" of the race. Same for gnome or elf or any other class' innate magics.

But the only way you're going to dissuade these behaviors/expectations/assumptions is to lay out that they are not so in the game. Just say No.

Enchantment magics a bit tougher to flavor as overt since they are, essentially, to be used to alter someone's perceptions and I can see it not being noticeable as the default assumption. But in the situations you describe in the OP, in a crowded closed space or at a gate house with a half dozen guards...who are on duty to be watching those entering the city...it really would/should have a very low chance of success. If theywant to try it anyway, that's on them and they can deal with the fall out.

But just say, from the get go, spell casting...the "Cast a Spell" Action is a noticeable, deliberate action unless it is an innate power or being used with Subtle, Silent or Still spell. That's it.

Want to try doing it in crowded situations, set up to have one of your companions create a distraction while you are mumbling and waving your hands.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Maybe everyone is just really tired of having stock interact-with-the-guards scenes and would rather move on to more interesting conflicts. So either they're using the spell to just skip past the scene or creating a conflict that will be more interesting.

Classic 4E DMG trained response.

Talking to city guards isn't fun. Skip the banter and move on to the FUN!

 

[Rune]

Classic 4E DMG trained response.

Talking to city guards isn't fun. Skip the banter and move on to the FUN!

The philosophy predates 4e--how else would it even find it's way into the 4e DMG? It's not like any of its advice was particularly novel. (Although 4e would probably have not skipped such a scene if it could squeeze it into a skill challenge.)

However, I'm confused by your intent. Are you suggesting that the game is more fun when it is less fun?