Succubus query

[Sadras]

Apologies as I assume this question has been asked and answered already, but I'd like to know the motivation for the Succubus being changed from a Tanar'ri in previous editions to a Devil (essentially Baatezu) in the 4E Monster Manual?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think WotC decided the succubus and erineyes were too similar, and furthermore the succubus' abilities "didn't seem chaotic".

You can always change it back. Whether it's a demon or devil, and it's alignment, is just fluff.

 

[Klaus]

To help differentiate Devils from Demons, the 4e mythology gives Devils the "temptation/corruption" angle, leaving Demons with the "annihilate/entropy" angle. The Succubus' standard procedure of seducing and corrupting mortals was a better fit for a Devil than a Demon.

This also allowed Erynies to go back to their mythological roots of divine punishers.

 

[Sadras]

Cool thanx, was thinking it was the temptation angle. Funny though that the Glabrezu (Demon) of 2AD&D also used to use temptation - but his angle was power. But he just remained a brute in 4E.
Going deeper the Cambion origins were also switched to Devil, which technically would mean Alu-Fiends would also be considered part devils.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6688277]Sadras[/MENTION]
Yeah they've got the right of it. Funny thing is Graz'zt is still the tempter demon prince. If you're looking for an 2e/3e style Erinyes I've started one up in my Planescape thread. To my knowledge there are no alu-fiend stats for 4e yet.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, they DO explain Grazz'zt as being a devil that infiltrated the abyss and is presumably now a demon lord (he could be a double agent etc). Pazuzu also has a somewhat deceptive sort of theme to him for a demon.

I do like the way they differentiate the two types of monsters more now though.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Apologies as I assume this question has been asked and answered already, but I'd like to know the motivation for the Succubus being changed from a Tanar'ri in previous editions to a Devil (essentially Baatezu) in the 4E Monster Manual?

In 4e there's a clear devil/demon split. Devils are beings inside the system who what to take it over, demons are beings outside the system that want to either wach the world burn or tear it down stone by stone. When you have that distinction then Succubi are very clearly devils.

 

[Sadras]

In 4e there's a clear devil/demon split. Devils are beings inside the system who what to take it over, demons are beings outside the system that want to either wach the world burn or tear it down stone by stone. When you have that distinction then Succubi are very clearly devils.

Makes complete sense. Thanx. Interesting I wonder if they will keep to this logic for 5E.

 

[TwoSix]

Makes complete sense. Thanx. Interesting I wonder if they will keep to this logic for 5E.

A logical, flavorful change to existing lore that only existed in 4e? I'd lay about 6:1 odds against, if I was a betting man.