"Sudden" feats from Complete Arcane.

[Feldspar]

They have the same prerequisite - any metamagic feat.

That's my first problem with the sudden feats. The second is that they appear to allow you to surpass max caster level in a way you couldn't for the metamagic feat they're based on. For example, a fifth level wizard can't Maximize his fireball, but he could Sudden Maximize it. That's seems like a problem to me.

 

[Qaballa]

Let's say I want to use Widen Spell and Sudden Widen on Fireball (20' radius). What would the new radius be? 60 feet or 80 feet?

I'd say go with the normal rules for doubling and doubling again which is to in effect triple it so I'd say 60 ft

 

[Thanee]

For all all cases, I would rather maximise than empower when I don't have to pay level costs.

That is so, not all cases, but pretty close. By removing the level cost, obviously the ones that had a higher cost before are now better than the other ones.

Sudden Maximize is the clear leader of the sudden metamagic feats (since Quicken is over-penalized with a ridiculous amount of prerequisites).

Bye
Thanee

 

[shilsen]

That's my first problem with the sudden feats. The second is that they appear to allow you to surpass max caster level in a way you couldn't for the metamagic feat they're based on. For example, a fifth level wizard can't Maximize his fireball, but he could Sudden Maximize it. That's seems like a problem to me.

I agree. Retaining the level cap for Sudden Metamagic without actually using a higher level slot (so, for example, a 7th lvl wizard could only sudden empower a spell up to 2nd lvl) would be a nice house rule. Or just use the spontaneous matamagic rule from UA (which has the level cap). I've used it in my game and it is very nicely balanced, IMO.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

Not trying to hijack the thread and this is certainly more of a House Rules question, but hoping I can slip it in without pissing off any of the Bossmen upstairs...

Do you think chaining the Sudden Feats together in a stair progression without having the normal level cap for the Metamagic Feats (such as Shilsen has kept) would work?

So, for instance:

Sudden Still or Sudden Silent (give the option of one of two for the star) to get Extend to get Empower to get Mazimize and finally to get Quicken.

Anyone else think that is fairly balanced?

 

[jodyjohnson]

It might keep the Sudden Empower/Sudden Maximize combo out of the hands of a 3rd level caster but if combining them is a problem in your campaign it will just show up later.

Combined with Metamagic rods these seem to allow too much of a power jump.

In our campaign, I had put the same limit on them as Shilsen (also including MM rods). Alternately, maybe making the action of using them a Swift action. Thus you couldn't stack them because of the limit of Swift actions per round. Then uncap them.

Singly I think they are fine. Combining 2 or more seems a bit much. (i.e. Sudden Maximise and Sudden Empower is normally a +5 adjustment -- the equivalent of a 10 level boost ifor acquiring spell levels)

 

[Nail]

BTW: Can sorcerers Sudden "X" a spell as a Std Action, or a Full Round Action, as usual?

 

[Jdvn1]

As the spell description. Standard action sudden spells take a standard action for Sorcerers.

The application of a Sudden Metamagic feat is free.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Let's say I want to use Widen Spell and Sudden Widen on Fireball (20' radius). What would the new radius be? 60 feet or 80 feet?

You can't apply the same metamagic feat twice to the same spell.

 

[ARandomGod]

Sudden Quicken prereqs:
Quicken Spell, Sudden Empower, Sudden Extend, Sudden Maximize, Sudden Silent, Sudden Still.

Whereas I think it falls under the "they were just being stupid and hyperreactive" catagory.