Summon Horde

Crothian

First Post
I'm trying to come up with a spell that summons a greater amount of creatures then the summon monster spells. The spell will be exactly like the summon monsters spells except they are 4 levels higher (Summon Monster 1 is level 1, Summon Horde 1 is level 5). Summon Horde summons 3d6 of any one creature that the same numbered Summon Monster can summon. It summons 4d6 of one lower, or 5d6 of two lower.

How does this sound? Thoughts? Opinions?
 

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Crothian said:
I'm trying to come up with a spell that summons a greater amount of creatures then the summon monster spells. The spell will be exactly like the summon monsters spells except they are 4 levels higher (Summon Monster 1 is level 1, Summon Horde 1 is level 5). Summon Horde summons 3d6 of any one creature that the same numbered Summon Monster can summon. It summons 4d6 of one lower, or 5d6 of two lower.

How does this sound? Thoughts? Opinions?

One way to summon more creatures is to just use Empower Spell multiple times. However, it is not as potent as your proposed Summon Horde.

By the rules, Summon Monster 3 gets you 1d4+1 level 1 monsters.

An Empowered Summon Monster 3 (5th level) gets you (1d4+1) x 1.5 level 1 monsters.

A twice-Empowered Summon Monster 3 (7th level) gets you a grand total of 2d4+2 level 1 monsters.

On the other hand, a 7th level spell that gets you 7 celestial dogs (on average) for 1 round/level definitely seems under-powered to me.

On balance, +4 levels for 3d6 creatures may be OK. The image of 10 celestial dire lions suddenly appearing to surround and flank some poor demon, clawing, biting and smiting evil looks about right for a 9th level spell.
 

Sounds good. Although I would let it keep scaling downwards so the 3 down is 6d6, etc... Now let's see the Epic Version ;)

I wanna be able to cast "Gaggle of Lilends" :p
 

Re: Re: Summon Horde

FireLance said:


One way to summon more creatures is to just use Empower Spell multiple times. However, it is not as potent as your proposed Summon Horde.

By the rules, Summon Monster 3 gets you 1d4+1 level 1 monsters.

An Empowered Summon Monster 3 (5th level) gets you (1d4+1) x 1.5 level 1 monsters.

Normally I would use suggest meta magic feats to increase the number, but it just doesn't work in this case. The numbers summoned are too small to really get a worthwhile boost. I like the idea of one spell that summons a lot of lesser creatures. That and I think the summoning spelsl are a littlke weak so I hope this adds to their power and versatility.
 

drowdude said:
Sounds good. Although I would let it keep scaling downwards so the 3 down is 6d6, etc... Now let's see the Epic Version ;)

I wanna be able to cast "Gaggle of Lilends" :p

Scaling down is a good idea. An epic spell of this type would be interesting, I'll have to take a look at that. I'll have to get these spells typed up individualy and see what they look like.
 

Here's the five reguliar versions. I'll have to take a look at the Epic stuff before I can post that.

Summon Monster Horde I
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Clr 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 full round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: A number of summoned creature, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell summons an outsider (extraplanar creature) that attacks the character's enemies. It appears where the character designates and acts immediately, on the character's turn. It attacks the character's opponents to the best of its ability. If the character can communicate with the outsider, the character can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. Summoned creatures act normally on the last round of the spell and disappear at the end of their turn.

Summon Monster Horde summons 3d6 of one type of creature that can be summoned with Monster Summoning I.

When the character uses a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type. For example, summon monster I is a lawful and evil spell when cast to summon a dire rat.

Summon Monster Horde II
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 6

As summon monster horde I, except the character can summon 3d6 outsiders from the 2nd-level list or 4d6 outsiders of the same type from the 1st-level list.

Summon Monster Horde III
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Clr 7, Sor/Wiz 7

As summon monster horde I, except the character can summon 3d6 outsiders from 3rd level list, 4d6 outsiders from the 2nd-level list or 5d6 outsiders of the same type from the 1st-level list.

Summon Monster Horde IV
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8

As summon monster horde I, except the character can summon 3d6 outsiders from the 4th level list, 4d6 outsiders from 3rd level list, 5d6 outsiders from the 2nd-level list or 6d6 outsiders of the same type from the 1st-level list.

Summon Monster Horde V
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9

As summon monster horde I, except the character can summon 3d6 outsiders from the fifth level list, 4d6 outsiders from the 4th level list, 5d6 outsiders from 3rd level list, 6d6 outsiders from the 2nd-level list or 7d6 outsiders of the same type from the 1st-level list.
 



Epic Summon Horde is going to stink. I can't make it a random number. I have to specify the exact type of creature and each additional creature greatly increases the DC. Okay, I want to summon a horde of Lanterns Archons. I want it to be better then Summon Horde 5, which could summon 4d6 of them. So, we'll make it a nice even 30. Base Spellcraft DC of 14. Not affected by the creatures CR since it's 2 or less. Then it's x2 for each additional one, so 29 times or a total of 420. So, the only way to make it worth while it to make it cost lots of XP, require more people in the casting, make the casting time rediculus. It just doesn't seem worth while, and to summon something worth while it would require a crap load of mages spending slots and XP.
 

Crothian said:


You still owe me a Leviathon. ;)

Epic version is next. I'll have to unpack the ELH and see what happens. :)


Heh... there *is* a reason I was asking about the Behemoth template dontchaknow? ;) :p
 
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