Summon Monster... check it out

[AirElemental]

can you force summoned monsters to behave against their alignment?

In other words, could an evil summoner summon a lantern archon?

The way the spell is stated, it doesnt sound like the archon has any power to resist your commands.
If so, that makes for a particularly nasty combination...
Someone in another thread mentioned summoning around 38 archons and attacking your foe..
but where it interests me is that you can scry your foe, draw a picture of his location using oh lets make it quick, major image,
then start summoning your little celestial buddies. the major image has sufficient map detail to provide perfect teleportation ability, and your archons zoom in on your enemy (lets say your 8th level, and can only summon a few of these baddies..)
so your archon aids itself, then teleports without error. it then starts either zapping your foe, or lets say you decide you want his sword. the archon zaps your foe, then next round readies an action to teleport without error back to you the instant it gets hit with the sword.. So the wielder of the sword has to make a save DC 17 or lose his weapon. try to touch his sword and take it.. or his armor.. or lets suppose you just want the treasure chest his donkey is carrying. wham its yours!

 

[Mahali]

A cleric can not cast spells of opposite alignment to themselves or their god.

So an evil cleric can't summon a Latern Archon because they're Good and it's a Good spell when casting.

 

[Caliban]

can you force summoned monsters to behave against their alignment?

Interesting question. It probably depends on the DM. I would have any good aligned creature resist any obviously (to it) evil command.

In other words, could an evil summoner summon a lantern archon?

An evil arcane caster can theoretically summon a lantern archon. An evil cleric could not.

The way the spell is stated, it doesnt sound like the archon has any power to resist your commands.

First, it has to be able to understand your commands. Anything beyond simply ordering it to attack would require that you speak it's language. So your evil spellcaster would need to learn celestial to give the lantern archon complex commands. And even then, I believe it would try to avoid or misinterpet any command it disagree's with.

If so, that makes for a particularly nasty combination...
Someone in another thread mentioned summoning around 38 archons and attacking your foe..
but where it interests me is that you can scry your foe, draw a picture of his location using oh lets make it quick, major image,
then start summoning your little celestial buddies. the major image has sufficient map detail to provide perfect teleportation ability, and your archons zoom in on your enemy (lets say your 8th level, and can only summon a few of these baddies..)

They only have 4 hp. They aren't that hard to take out.

so your archon aids itself, then teleports without error. it then starts either zapping your foe, or lets say you decide you want his sword. the archon zaps your foe, then next round readies an action to teleport without error back to you the instant it gets hit with the sword.. So the wielder of the sword has to make a save DC 17 or lose his weapon. try to touch his sword and take it.. or his armor.. or lets suppose you just want the treasure chest his donkey is carrying. wham its yours!

It would not be able to take the sword with it. It can't teleport an attended object, only unattended objects.

 

[AirElemental]

Not true! read the first paragraph of teleport , and teleport without error says "as teleport except..."
so, you can teleport your opponents weapon right out of their hand.
Yes, Lantern archons have 4 hp.. but tack on aid, augment summoning, or since you can cast 4th level spells, how about stoneskin?

You can see where I'm going. if you have more archons, it gets even sicker.
3-5 archons, one will DEFINITELY get that magic item you want off your foe.. unless they have whirlwind attack. best thing to do in that case is to have them light ray the bastard till he's dead and then sneak in and take what you want.

 

[Nareau]

Archon Tongues

Don't forget that Lantern Archons have the great ability to understand any language (Tongues).

As a DM, I think I would...discourage...this kind of practice. Imagine what the Celestial Council will think when their soldiers are being forced to do the dirty work of an evil wizard.

 

[Caliban]

Not true! read the first paragraph of teleport , and teleport without error says "as teleport except..."
so, you can teleport your opponents weapon right out of their hand.

Nope. It's an attended object. You cannot seperate it from the person holding it, and the archon cannot teleport other living creatures.

Yes, Lantern archons have 4 hp.. but tack on aid, augment summoning, or since you can cast 4th level spells, how about stoneskin?

You can see where I'm going. if you have more archons, it gets even sicker.

It's silly and it doesn't work the way you want it to. It would be much more effective to summon a different monster than to summon one or more lantern archons and blow your high level spells on them.

3-5 archons, one will DEFINITELY get that magic item you want off your foe.. unless they have whirlwind attack. best thing to do in that case is to have them light ray the bastard till he's dead and then sneak in and take what you want.

It doesn't work the way you want it to. Stop trying to be a munchkin.

 

[AirElemental]

Caliban -- dont call me a munchkin without reading the spell You expletive expletive!
hehehe
now look, i'll quote the paragraph verbatim so you dont have to get your butt up and find your PHB...
...you can bring along objects and willing creatures totalling up to 50 pounds per level. as with all spells where the range is personal and the target is you, you need not make a saving throw, nor is SR applicable to you. ONLY OBJECTS HELD OR IN USE (ATTENDED) BY ANOTHER PERSON RECEIVE SAVING THROWS AND SR.

There it is plain as day.
if you grab the guys sword and he's holding it, and you teleport, then he makes a save to keep his sword. if he fails it, you keep the sword.

 

[Crothian]

WEll, first you'd have to grab the weapon. THat should provoke an AoO. THen you need to hold it for one round because they need a standard action to cast the spell. So, the person will have their action to react to the grabbing and pull it away (strength check I'd guesse), and assuming the archon still has it needs to make a concentration check (I think, I'm not sure with exactly what powers need them without looking it up) assuming they can in a grablle (not sure on that rule either) and then if all that happens, the person still get SR and saving throw.

I think I covered everything that has to happen for this to work. I'm sure many people will tell me if I'm wrong.

 

[Caliban]

Caliban -- dont call me a munchkin without reading the spell You expletive expletive!
hehehe

You are being a munchkin. "The archon zaps your foe, then next round readies an action to teleport without error back to you the instant it gets hit with the sword..."

I'd laugh you right out of my game.

*whining snipped*

There it is plain as day.
if you grab the guys sword and he's holding it, and you teleport, then he makes a save to keep his sword. if he fails it, you keep the sword.

I grant you that it is theoretically possible. It's still lame, and it still will not work the way you are thinking it will.

Since the lantern archon doesn't have any limbs, how do you propose that it grab his sword?

And a lantern archon would resist doing this on behalf of an evil spellcaster in any case.

 

[AirElemental]

Well..

Hmm I only have this much to say crothian:

IF it requires you to touch the item, then all you need do is touch it and then teleport.

I might be wrong, but it sounds like a "Cure light wounds" type effect, where you cast and touch in same round for effect.

If Thats not the case, It would still work the way I stated it before, with the archon making a readied action to teleport when it gets hit and taking the sword that hit it with it... so long as you have stoneskin.
Also, this could be a really good means of transporting gold treasure back to your keep after an adventure.. tell the archon "teleport this chest (50lbs) to my keep, then return.."